Christian business owners . . .

[Ben Kenobi]

So you accept the truth of the following statement (my first statement which you took issue with)?

"Mormons are Christian by the dictionary definition of the term." - Aeson

I challenge the assertion that a dictionary can provide a reliable source definition as to what constitutes a Christian.

I am asserting that the Athanasian Creed explains why Christians believe that God is eternal and that God is uncreated - beliefs that are not taught by the Mormon church. Ergo, I conclude that Mormonism is not a Christian denomination.

Your argument is prima facie prescriptivist, -essentially anyone who says the words, "I am a Christian", is a Christian, irrespective of their actual beliefs. You're arguing that how people use or misuse language makes it true.

Which also explains why you continue to label my arguments as 'dishonest', because that's how you believe language works.

I'm arguing from an objectivist position - that Christianity has a set of objective beliefs shared by all Christians. Ergo, just saying "I am a Christian" is insufficient.

[C0ckney]

Imma let you finish c0ckney but "Pope sends direct message to Ben" was the most inane, repetitive and worthless thread of all time.

well it was certainly longer, but size isn't everything you know. the judges have spoken; there's no point arguing about the result now.

[Ben Kenobi]

Jesus was there before the Constantine

Yes, and? So was the Catholic church.

His own stated requirements for salvation were rather plain and simple. Something organized religion later took care of.

And what did he say were the requirements?

(This is the claim Mormons would make to claim Catholics are not true Christians. It's too bad there's no Mormon posters here, that would be a much more fun debate since then I could laugh at both sides, as the LDS Church became almost exactly what it was originally purported to be trying to fix.

LDS is as close to Christianity as Cicero is to Garibaldi. There's 1800 years between the two.

Sliding scales, arbitrary delimiters.

If you had studied history you'd understand why corroboration is significant. We can obtain reliable information through logic.

Because my statement was explicitly about the dictionary definition

But why is the dictionary authoritative?

Obviously the dictionary definition of the term is important to the validity of that statement.

Why? That's the presupposition I'm challenging here.

[Ben Kenobi]

I applied the term for the sake of brevity. Mormons don't use the term at all, and generally don't use a term for it

So, if the Mormons don't have the doctrine of the immaculate conception, why would you claim they do? Catholic teachings on this matter are very specific. Mormons don't share this at all.

[Ben Kenobi]

Mormons believe their Church was founded by Christ

Which explains the 1800 year gap?

[Ben Kenobi]

Premiss isn't misspelled, JR.

premiss - a statement that is assumed to be true and from which a conclusion can be drawn; "on the assumption that he has been injured we can infer that he will not to play"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/premiss

[Sava]

The nominations are in and the voting is complete. In the 500+ post category, "Christian business owners . . ." has been named among the most inane, repetitive, and overall worthless threads in Poly history.

So without further ado, here are the winners of...

The Threadies -- Best in Thread Awards

Strange Bedfellows Award -- Tie between two teams: Team Dictionary (Aeson and Kidicious) and their mortal enemies, Team Scripture (BK, Imran, and Sava). All the sweeter for its "that will never happen" unpredictability.

Sweet Irony Award -- To Imran, for his pre-Aeson statement: "Yes, a reinterpretation of Scripture doesn't mean that you don't still hold to what was written in Scripture. You are just interpreting the text in a new and fresh way." (Post 221)

Truer Words Were Never Spoken Award -- To Kidicious, for: "You're talking nonsense, and wasting my time." (Post 252)

Truth In Advertising Award -- To Aeson, for the deceptively non-controversial "Mormons are Christian by the dictionary definition of the term." (Post 262)

Loss of Credibility Through Misspelling Award -- To Ben Kenobi, for "premiss" (numerous incidents)

Best Name for a Rock Band Award -- To Sava, for "Cavernous Anus" (Post 371)

Height of Irony Award -- To Kidicious, for "You better learn what words mean..." (Post 372)

Well Then You're 100% Half-Wrong Award -- To Sava for "53% of white evangelicals polled said Mormons aren't Christian." (Post 414)

One Letter Makes All The Difference Award -- Jointly to BK and Aeson for "heresay vs heresy" (narrowly beating out "Mormon vs. moron")

All Evidence To The Contrary Award -- To Kidicious, for "Logic isn't a game."

Universal Truth Award -- To C0ckney, for "You are too stupid to understand a simple sentence."

That's Why We Love Him Award -- To Kidicious, for "Even the owner is a troll." (Post 462)

Possible Cosmic Truth Award -- To giblets, for "you're all going to burn in hell" (Post 509)

Tom Cruise "Clear" Award -- To The Mad Monk, for "I should have suggested L. Ron Hubbard." (Post 512)

The 'What Were We Talking About?' Award -- To MrFun, for demonstrating that even a standard "MrFun quotes the liberal Internet" thread can reach 500 posts. (Post #1)

Will thank when it respawns

[Dr Strangelove]

The nominations are in and the voting is complete. In the 500+ post category, "Christian business owners . . ." has been named among the most inane, repetitive, and overall worthless threads in Poly history.

So without further ado, here are the winners of...

The Threadies -- Best in Thread Awards

Strange Bedfellows Award -- Tie between two teams: Team Dictionary (Aeson and Kidicious) and their mortal enemies, Team Scripture (BK, Imran, and Sava). All the sweeter for its "that will never happen" unpredictability.

Sweet Irony Award -- To Imran, for his pre-Aeson statement: "Yes, a reinterpretation of Scripture doesn't mean that you don't still hold to what was written in Scripture. You are just interpreting the text in a new and fresh way." (Post 221)

Truer Words Were Never Spoken Award -- To Kidicious, for: "You're talking nonsense, and wasting my time." (Post 252)

Truth In Advertising Award -- To Aeson, for the deceptively non-controversial "Mormons are Christian by the dictionary definition of the term." (Post 262)

Loss of Credibility Through Misspelling Award -- To Ben Kenobi, for "premiss" (numerous incidents)

Best Name for a Rock Band Award -- To Sava, for "Cavernous Anus" (Post 371)

Height of Irony Award -- To Kidicious, for "You better learn what words mean..." (Post 372)

Well Then You're 100% Half-Wrong Award -- To Sava for "53% of white evangelicals polled said Mormons aren't Christian." (Post 414)

One Letter Makes All The Difference Award -- Jointly to BK and Aeson for "heresay vs heresy" (narrowly beating out "Mormon vs. moron")

All Evidence To The Contrary Award -- To Kidicious, for "Logic isn't a game."

Universal Truth Award -- To C0ckney, for "You are too stupid to understand a simple sentence."

That's Why We Love Him Award -- To Kidicious, for "Even the owner is a troll." (Post 462)

Possible Cosmic Truth Award -- To giblets, for "you're all going to burn in hell" (Post 509)

Tom Cruise "Clear" Award -- To The Mad Monk, for "I should have suggested L. Ron Hubbard." (Post 512)

The 'What Were We Talking About?' Award -- To MrFun, for demonstrating that even a standard "MrFun quotes the liberal Internet" thread can reach 500 posts. (Post #1)

You spend way too much time here.

[Dr Strangelove]

Which explains the 1800 year gap?

According to the Mormons Christ stopped off in America after finishing his visit to the Old World, the inhabitants of America were descendants of a lost tribe of Israel. Some of the lost tribe accepted Christ, the others didn't. Eventually the ones who didn't exterminated the believers then they reverted to uncivilized wildness, i.e., the state that Europeans found them.

I don't guess the LDS have an explanation for the utter lack of a genetic link between American Indians and Jews.

We used to have someone here who claimed to have been a Mormon.

[Kidlicious]

JR wins the thread.

[Aeson]

I challenge the assertion that a dictionary can provide a reliable source definition as to what constitutes a Christian.

I am asserting that the Athanasian Creed explains why Christians believe that God is eternal and that God is uncreated - beliefs that are not taught by the Mormon church. Ergo, I conclude that Mormonism is not a Christian denomination.

Your argument is prima facie prescriptivist, -essentially anyone who says the words, "I am a Christian", is a Christian, irrespective of their actual beliefs. You're arguing that how people use or misuse language makes it true.

Which also explains why you continue to label my arguments as 'dishonest', because that's how you believe language works.

I'm arguing from an objectivist position - that Christianity has a set of objective beliefs shared by all Christians. Ergo, just saying "I am a Christian" is insufficient.

Strawman. Why are you so dishonest that you can't answer a simple question?

[Aeson]

Why? That's the presupposition I'm challenging here.

Because the statement was specifically about the dicitionary definition of the term. To determine if Mormons are Christians using the dictionary definition of the term you have to use the dictionary definition of the term. Using a different non-dictionary definition is simply not applicable to the validity of the statement.

Which is why you are dishonest. You won't answer the question, and instead pretend the question was something else entirely.

[Aeson]

Which explains the 1800 year gap?

They have an explanation for that. If you'd bother to read I've already explain it ... and there are plenty of sources out there to do so.

Their explanation has just as much to back it up as your own beliefs.

[Aeson]

It's your thesis. If you can't find evidence supporting your thesis that the Catholic church has changed her doctrine, it's not me who's stupid.

Has Catholic doctrine changed in any way at any point in time?

My own views on Catholic doctrine aren't very interesting, because I'm not Catholic. Your views on it are interesting, since you seem to be implying that you don't believe there have ever been any changes in Catholic doctrine ... I would just like you to answer a simple question, yes or no ... so I can laugh at your dishonest replies.

[Aeson]

That's sort of the point here Aeson. There isn't a debate.

There certainly was debate about the issue. There no longer is, because those who debated against Young on the topic of Adam-God demonstrably won out.