Christian business owners . . .

[Elok]

No, we have Original Sin, we just understand it differently; we inherited Adam's predilection for evil, but not his guilt. IIRC Immaculate Conception was first cooked up by some Catholic council in the 1800s. Wiki says 1854.

Aeson: "Immaculate Conception" refers to the idea that, in order to give birth to Christ, Mary had to be somehow free from the taint of the Fall or something. It makes a great deal of sense to Catholic theologians and none whatever to others, who lack their elaborate scholastic superstructure. I doubt very much whether Mormons believe it, as Joseph Smith lived during a time when Catholics were only slightly more popular than blacks in America. And I'm not sure if it was even invented yet when Smith croaked.

[Imran Siddiqui]

No, we have Original Sin, we just understand it differently; we inherited Adam's predilection for evil, but not his guilt.

Is that not considered "Ancestral Sin" - or is that just another way y'all say Original Sin.

[Aeson]

Because you still don't understand what the immaculate conception is?

I understand it. The differences in doctrine in that regard are simply not important in regards to whether the dictionary definition of Christian applies to Mormons.

And the dictionary is wrong.

No, the dictionary is the authoritative source on what the dictionary definition of Christian is.

You want to use your own faith's arbitrary and self-serving definition to distract from the truth of my statement.

Not at all - this is just your pathetic strawman as you can't comprehend that people can call someone not a Christian, yet still not proclaim judgement on that inclusion or exclusion.

So you don't think your theological position is superior to that of Mormons?

[Aeson]

If Mormons are Christian, then I'm Jewish.

It's that simple.

Not by the definition you posted.

[Sava]

You want to use your own faith's arbitrary and self-serving definition to distract from the truth of my statement.

Imran is a typical whoremaster Christian.

[Sava]

Not by the definition you posted.

As a Christian, I follow Jewish teachings. Therefore, I am Jewish.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So you don't think your theological position is superior to that of Mormons?

Of course I do (otherwise I wouldn't hold them), but not just because they aren't Christians. I think my theological position is superior to that of Catholics as well, and they are definitely Christians.

[Aeson]

Aeson: "Immaculate Conception" refers to the idea that, in order to give birth to Christ, Mary had to be somehow free from the taint of the Fall or something. It makes a great deal of sense to Catholic theologians and none whatever to others, who lack their elaborate scholastic superstructure. I doubt very much whether Mormons believe it, as Joseph Smith lived during a time when Catholics were only slightly more popular than blacks in America. And I'm not sure if it was even invented yet when Smith croaked.

I understand that Elok. Mormons believe in a divine conception by Mary, and Jesus was free of all sin. It's easier to t ype immaculate conceptions because I myself think the term is silly, the theological and semantic differences are silly, but the term conveys the meaning that was important towards the issue being discussed. (eg. Mormons believes something divine and magical about Jesus's birth. Not about Joseph Smith.)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Of course this entire conversation reminds me of the socialism definition issue. The dictionary likes to make countries like France "socialist", whereas political scientists would recoil at that definition being used - seems to indicate that the dictionary writers have no clue what socialism actually is.

[Aeson]

Imran is a typical whoremaster Christian.

Probably not as much as he'd like to be ...

[Sava]

Of course this entire conversation reminds me of the socialism definition issue. The dictionary likes to make countries like France "socialist", whereas political scientists would recoil at that definition being used - seems to indicate that the dictionary writers have no clue what socialism actually is.

It's almost like relying on a dictionary definition for a complex subject is completely stupid.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I understand that Elok. Mormons believe in a divine conception by Mary, and Jesus was free of all sin. It's easier to t ype immaculate conceptions because I myself think the term is silly, the theological and semantic differences are silly, but the term conveys the meaning that was important towards the issue being discussed. (eg. Mormons believes something divine and magical about Jesus's birth. Not about Joseph Smith.)

That's not immaculate conception, Aeson.

Hint: the doctrine is about the conception of MARY, not Jesus.

[Sava]

Probably not as much as he'd like to be ...

... or as ANY OF US would like to be

[Imran Siddiqui]

It's almost like relying on a dictionary definition for a complex subject is completely stupid.

I'm am out of thanks

[DinoDoc]

If Mormons are Christian, then I'm Jewish.

It's that simple.

Mazel tov!