changes

[I AM MOBIUS]

No. This is a troll. I simply prefer sex with drunk women.

No, that's you being all too truthful.

[Kidlicious]

"Where the hell did I say he 'moved her in' (which he didn't, he invited her and she moved in. You know, because she is a human being in control of her actions. I know you have problems with this premise.) just for that? I'm sure there's a lot more, it was your claim that it was only for sex, and I provided a readily available counter example to prove your premise wrong. The fact that you fail at logic and basic reasoning doesn't mean you're entitled to insult people."

You're the one who insulted people. I made no judgement. You did.

[Ben Kenobi]

At Ben: because you are a two-faced bigoted lying sob and terrible person in general ?

Where have I lied in this thread?

[N35t0r]

You're expecting Christians to automatically approve of living conditions they consider sinful? Curious. There are good reasons not to just go along, some of which start from the point that people are people and not disposable.

Sorry, but from 'encouraging' to 'spewing vitriol at' there's a wide range of possible behaviours, many of which would fall inside 'love your neighbour' but outside 'approve'. Not that, from your usual behaviour, I'd expect you to behave in a christian manner if the chance to accuse someone else of not doing so arises.

I also like how you state arguments that would imply you know what is happening, when you pretty much know nothing at all about Sava's relationship and whatever their arrangement is.

Well that's the point. If you're in a relationship where it's serious enough to move in, you're in a relationship where this arrangement wouldn't work out.

From you point of view, wouldn't 'a relationship where it's serious enough to move in' imply marriage? Why would we take this argument into account, especially given your track record? How many times have you moved in with women you were romantically engaged in? How many of those involved moving into somewhere you owned but were paying mortgage on?

That's the point that myself, and other polytubbies have been getting at. Doing it this way just doesn't work out.

If by 'other polytubbies' you mean Kid, then colour me surprised if I'm not sold on that point.

And yes, it's different if you are both paying rent as opposed to her paying rent to you.

But sometimes I'd pay the rent myself and then she'd pay me. How is this different?

And yes, I've been in this situation on both ends of it. If you want a relationship that lasts, this is not the way to go about and do it.

You own a flat? Why are you renting if you do?

[Ben Kenobi]

What happened to you Ben, why are you so broken...?

Not jealousy in the slightest. As I believe I said I've been on both sides of this situation - in having a female roommate and having landladies. It just does not work. Better to have the separation in the roles or to commit fully to the person. Someone always ends up hurt and it's always difficult.

[spambot]

If it were spite, wouldn't I be counseling Sava to pursue a course that I believed was disastrous and the course he was already inclined to take instead of counseling him a course that would allow him to live with his girlfriend and be more likely to pan out long term?

Again, I've been in this situation on both ends of it. Hard won experience. Sava would be happier moving her in and supporting her. If he's not sure about the relationship and is doing it just to prevent her from moving to Colorado... well, that's problems right there.

You seem to assume men have to be the breadwinner in every relationship. IMO Sava would probably function better as a stay-at-home dad.

[I AM MOBIUS]

Where have I lied in this thread?

Most people would ask the question "Where have I lied?", but you had to qualify it with "in this thread"...

Your reputation on poly is that of a liar - the fact that you may not have lied "in this thread" is neither here nor there!

[dannubis]

At Ben:

From the moment you tried turning this

"Perhaps we should start a pool as to how long this 'arrangement' would last? "

into this

"If it were spite, wouldn't I be counseling Sava to pursue a course that I believed was disastrous and the course he was already inclined to take instead of counseling him a course that would allow him to live with his girlfriend and be more likely to pan out long term?"

[N35t0r]

"Where the hell did I say he 'moved her in' (which he didn't, he invited her and she moved in. You know, because she is a human being in control of her actions. I know you have problems with this premise.) just for that? I'm sure there's a lot more, it was your claim that it was only for sex, and I provided a readily available counter example to prove your premise wrong. The fact that you fail at logic and basic reasoning doesn't mean you're entitled to insult people."

You're the one who insulted people. I made no judgement. You did.

No U!

[N35t0r]

Not jealousy in the slightest. As I believe I said I've been on both sides of this situation - in having a female roommate and having landladies. It just does not work. Better to have the separation in the roles or to commit fully to the person. Someone always ends up hurt and it's always difficult.

Were you romantically involved with them?

[I AM MOBIUS]

Not jealousy in the slightest. As I believe I said I've been on both sides of this situation - in having a female roommate and having landladies. It just does not work. Better to have the separation in the roles or to commit fully to the person. Someone always ends up hurt and it's always difficult.

See, you're just like Kid with the sexism. What about male roomates and landlords...?

You too deserve each other, apart from the fact he's too far past puberty for you...

[I AM MOBIUS]

Were you romantically involved with them?

He wishes!

That's why he's so bitter and twisted - because they spurned him...

[Ben Kenobi]

Sorry, but from 'encouraging' to 'spewing vitriol at' there's a wide range of possible behaviours, many of which would fall inside 'love your neighbour' but outside 'approve'. Not that, from your usual behaviour, I'd expect you to behave in a christian manner if the chance to accuse someone else of not doing so arises.

I've made my point that the separation of roles or full commitment to the person is how it should be done. I'm not even the only one who has counseled this.

I also like how you state arguments that would imply you know what is happening, when you pretty much know nothing at all about Sava's relationship and whatever their arrangement is.

The benefit of experience again is that I've been in similar circumstances. You're right, but I am relying on Sava's statement. 4 months, and his, "she was moving to Colorado and I wanted to keep her here" and Sava's, "she can help pay off my mortgage", all strike me as statements of a relationship that will probably carry on for awhile and then blow up spectacularly.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but those are the red flags I see. If you're not sure about her - you shouldn't be having her move in.

From you point of view, wouldn't 'a relationship where it's serious enough to move in' imply marriage?

Good question. As a Christian, yes, I would counsel marrying before moving in together. However I would argue that being clear about the intentions would benefit Sava whether he marries or not. .

Why would we take this argument into account, especially given your track record?

What track record?

How many times have you moved in with women you were romantically engaged in? How many of those involved moving into somewhere you owned but were paying mortgage on?

I've had a female roommate once - long story short was that she helped me find a place with friends of hers, and I set things up to repay the favor when she hit a rough patch. Did not work out but I wasn't charging her to stay there while she was getting on her feet.

And I've had landladies rent to me wanting more than just that which is always awkward, and ends poorly.

But sometimes I'd pay the rent myself and then she'd pay me. How is this different?

Relationshipwise if you're working from the standpoint of ours rather than her to you, it makes a tremendous difference. You're also not trying to mix two relationships together that really shouldn't be mixed.

You own a flat? Why are you renting if you do?

I got transferred to a different school, and made arrangements with my landlady at the time to keep up my old place with her to help out a friend. Wasn't supposed to be a long term thing, but could very easily have worked into one.

Basically, she had been renting from this friend for years, had moved out, I ended up moving in to where she had been and it worked out well. So, when she needed help, I reversed it and had her in where I was and moved closer to work. The arrangement was only if I was responsible for paying the rent etc.

[Ben Kenobi]

You seem to assume men have to be the breadwinner in every relationship. IMO Sava would probably function better as a stay-at-home dad

Not the slightest. I'm suggesting that if Sava is serious about the relationship that they start looking at it as an expense for "we" not her to him.

[Ben Kenobi]

He wishes!

No, no I don't.

Call it maturity or the benefit of hindsight.