what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Bereta_Eder]

and bulgaria is suffering from a post-communist neoliberal jenisar epiphany.
These things usually don't last long

[giblets]

LOL? Of course Soviet Union was better than Yeltsin, silly. Seriously, if you bother propaganding something for Russians, at least care to know such basic things. The moment you spew something as retarded as that, all your credibility goes down the sewer, where it belongs anyway.

The world feared nuclear annihilation when the Soviet Union existed, my post wasn't about Russians, genius

The Soviet Union wasn't good for Poland, or Estonia, or any of the other countries Russia ruled over either directly or as puppets

Obviously when Yeltsin was around the rest of the world was relieved to not have to put up with the Soviet Union anymore, I don't think anyone thought he was the greatest leader ever or anything like that

[onodera]

LOL? Of course Soviet Union was better than Yeltsin, silly. Seriously, if you bother propaganding something for Russians, at least care to know such basic things. The moment you spew something as retarded as that, all your credibility goes down the sewer, where it belongs anyway.


Yep. And so we think, if the West says that USSR and Putin are like super-bad, and they praised Gorbachev and Yeltsin, and it's completely opposite for any sane Russian person (maybe not in absolute terms, but compared to one another - for sure), then what does it mean? Exactly. That's your ****ing retarded Western propaganda that says that everything bad for Russia is good, and everything good for Russia is bad.

How do you think, what's the effectiveness of said propaganda on any sane Russian person? I'll tell it for you - any person or news source saying it is an enemy of Russia, simple as that. That's the only result of such a crude propaganda.

I'd say people definitely lived better in 1997 than in 1937 or 1947. Comparing 1997 with 1987 or 1977 is harder, since lots of things went to **** while other things improved.

For example, in 1997 we could afford a package tour to a hotel in Turkey, which completely wiped the floor with anything Crimea was offering at the same price. In 1987 that was simply impossible. Life in 1987 was more predictable, of course.

[Ellestar]

I'd say people definitely lived better in 1997 than in 1937 or 1947. Comparing 1997 with 1987 or 1977 is harder, since lots of things went to **** while other things improved.

Ha, of course quality of life improves over time. Technological progress assures that. I wouldn't exchange my life for a life of a king in feudal times (because i simply live much better and more comfortable), but so what?

For example, in 1997 we could afford a package tour to a hotel in Turkey, which completely wiped the floor with anything Crimea was offering at the same price. In 1987 that was simply impossible. Life in 1987 was more predictable, of course.

And you say it's a good thing? That USSR was so throughfully decimated by Gorbachev and Yeltsin that even Soviet legacy was destoryed, and we weren't able to properly rest in Crimea? How is it a good thing? If we go to Turkey to rest, that means that our money are flying to Turkey, and everyone in Russia becomes poorer. Money don't appear from nowhere (with the exception of USA, they're printing dollars after all, but we're not USA).

So, basically, you think a hotel in Turkey personally for you is better than a state of a country as a whole. Well, i wouldn't say that i lived worse in 1997 myself either, because i live in Moscow, and my parents have university degrees, and they didn't lost their jobs (well, my mother actually did, but she managed to found a new good one, unlike many others with the same education). So, yeah, personally for me quality of life was ok in 1990s too, even improved, thanks to access to import goods, and i also visited Europe as a tourist, but so what? The same couldn't be said about absolute majority of Russians in 1990s.

[onodera]

I was talking about progress-adjusted quality of life.

Crimea sucked in 1987 as well. The absolute majority of Russia have had a ****ty life in 1987 and 1997 and 1977 and will probably have it equally bad in 2017.

[Ellestar]

At the very least, wages and pensions were not delayed by half a year or more in 1987 or in 2007. But they were in 1997 (or at least in 1990s, i don't remember exact years). And that hits low-income families a lot, when they're living from one wage or pension to another as it is. And with all "deficit" of goods in USSR, actual consumption was relatively high even for low-income families.

[Dinner]

Given that terrorists on a territory of Sinai are controlled by Qatar, that only proves that terrorrists in Syria are also supported by Qatar. I think Russia should blow up several Qatar tankers, or something, for starters. Wouldn't be good to kill people for now, i guess, but blowing up tankers is totally ok with me.

Wow, that was even more stupid than usual for you. No, ISIS is not controlled by Qatar.

[Dinner]

I was talking about progress-adjusted quality of life.

Crimea sucked in 1987 as well. The absolute majority of Russia have had a ****ty life in 1987 and 1997 and 1977 and will probably have it equally bad in 2017.

It doesn't have to be that way but a lot of counter productive and bad laws would have to be change along with many of Putin's counter productive policies. Change those and Russia could easily become more properous like China. It is just a matter of priorities and good policies backed by a sound political and legal system. Sadly, Russia currently lacks all of those things.

[Dinner]

At the very least, wages and pensions were not delayed by half a year or more in 1987 or in 2007. But they were in 1997 (or at least in 1990s, i don't remember exact years). And that hits low-income families a lot, when they're living from one wage or pension to another as it is. And with all "deficit" of goods in USSR, actual consumption was relatively high even for low-income families.

I remember seeing (on tv) the bread lines in the 1980's and stores where not a single thing was on the shelves. The US gave millions of tons of free grain to the USSR just to prevent mass starvation so, no, the Soviet system was not any good. No freedom and it was so rotten by the end not even basic food like bread. Not exactly the super power Putin likes to pretend it was.

[Dinner]

You will notice Russia still has one of the highest rates of food wastage outside of Africa with an ungodly amount of food simply rotting before it reaches market. Poor transportation infrastructure, lack of proper storage facilities, and lack of proper processing facilities are the main reasons why. This was also true in the USSR yet 30 years later still no one has bothered to fix the problem. It is just bad governance. Despite Putin's talk about using the import ban to increase Russian agricultural output you are going to find that is a very hard thing to do. There are severe shortages of pesticides and fertilizers, lack of modern machinery, lack of modern irrigation systems, lack of even suitable seed stocks in many cases (for modern high yield disease resistant varieties).

All of that takes long term planning and a huge amount of public investment which simply is not happening while government regulations, lack of competition, and a lack of the rule of law all add up to the private sector not being willing or able to take on the task. Again, bad governance but that is what happens when you live in a dictatorship. He cares more about lining the pockets of himself and his cronies, making a few big cities into show pieces, engaging in foreign wars, and the hinterland gets completely ignored. None of the industry has been modernized and most sectors are dominated by one or two companies so there is little competition to force improved efficiency. The old Soviet one factory towns are slowly dying from neglect yet the government pays no more than lip service.

[Proteus_MST]

It doesn't have to be that way but a lot of counter productive and bad laws would have to be change along with many of Putin's counter productive policies. Change those and Russia could easily become more properous like China. It is just a matter of priorities and good policies backed by a sound political and legal system. Sadly, Russia currently lacks all of those things.

I agree ... there seems to be no reason why russia, with sound policies, good relations to the west and the introduction of harsh punishments for corruption, shouldn´t become a similar economic powerhouse as China.

I remember seeing (on tv) the bread lines in the 1980's and stores where not a single thing was on the shelves. ...

I have seen the bread lines in Ukraina in persona at the beginning of the 90s (i.e. only few years after the downfall of the USSR and Ukrainas independence) ... when I was part of a delegation of our archery club to the archery club in L´viv.
On the positive side they had scientific books in german language (obviously imported from the GDR) that costs only a few cent ... and Sovetskoye Shampanskoye that was ultra cheap (IIRC only 1-2 DM per bottle (~ 1 €))

[Dinner]

Russian made agricultural machinery is , in every way, inferior to those made in the west, much of it is ancient Soviet designs which have been barely modernized, yet Putin has ordered Russian farmers to only buy Russian made machinery. The result? -30% Russian production of agricultural machinery due to few people being able to afford it and Russian banks slashing lending due to sanctions. Enjoy a less efficient t and productive agricultural sector right when the dullards are demanding increased production. It won't happen.

http://agroinfo.com/en/news/production-agricultural-machinery-russia-january-september-2015/

[Dinner]

http://agroinfo.com/en/news/soyuzmoloko-dairy-industry-one-low-income-agriculture/

You guys have holes all over your agricultural system and you won't be able to bridge them without European style massive agricultural subsidies to justify the massive upfront costs (something which wold likely cinsure arounder 1/3rd of the entire Russian natonal budget). This could also be bridged with a massive 10-20 year state program to support agriculture and trade but let us face it, for the last 24 years (most of that under the dictator Putin) your government has been too lazy, corrupt, and incompetent to do anything of the sort and it shows zero signs of changing any time soon. You guys are doomed to high prices, low production, and lots of stuff rotting before it gets to market because, despite words, your government doesn't give a **** about the common people or improving domestic agriculture. 55% of total disposable income is what your average Russian spend just on food and that will likely grow. Enjoy Putinism suckers.

[Dinner]

http://m.bbc.com/sport/athletics/34811896

At least there is justice on the sporting front. Russia gets banned.

[Ellestar]

I remember seeing (on tv) the bread lines in the 1980's and stores where not a single thing was on the shelves. The US gave millions of tons of free grain to the USSR just to prevent mass starvation so, no, the Soviet system was not any good. No freedom and it was so rotten by the end not even basic food like bread. Not exactly the super power Putin likes to pretend it was.

It was in the very end when everything was collapsing. It's not like it was like that all the time during communism. But it wasn't any better in Yeltsin times, we were asking for food aid too, with a "western democracy" and a "good pro-western guy" Yeltsin.