The Great Scottish FREEEEEEEEEDOOOMMMMM!!!!1!!! vote

[Dr Strangelove]

Kentonio is right. Currently only 28% of the population identify themselves as Irish, about an equal number identify themselves as North Irish, and 48% identify themselves as British.

Irish identitiy is particularily strong in the western counties, perhaps they could be induced to secede.

[Dr Strangelove]

Like many Americans, you appear to be forming your opinion from exclusively pro-Unionist/Catholic sources and that's why you're so baffled. There is huge support for the Loyalist/Protestant cause in Scotland- just look at any crowd of Glasgow Rangers supporters.

My opinion is formed by images of Ulstermen shouting at and threatening Catholic children walking to school.

[C0ckney]

john knox

anyway, lt's interesting how close this has become, although perhaps not surprising, given the negative and lacklustre campaign fought by 'better together'. it seems the SNP have managed to position themselves as the radical, progressive option, opposing the unpopular establishment, while at the same time reassuring the naturally (small c) conservative scots by promising to change very little. they've played their hand very adroitly despite the uncertainty about what independence would bring.

[C0ckney]

Irish identitiy is particularily strong in the western counties, perhaps they could be induced to secede.

no. there is no chance that northern ireland will be broken up.

the situation, and historical context, in northern ireland is nothing like that in scotland, and the analogy is usually made by americans, who typically know nothing about the subject. the question in northern ireland is not one of independence (economically unrealistic, no popular support), but rather choosing between two countries, the UK and ireland. there are two communities, one of which is overwhelmingly committed to the UK and the other, in which a plurality support remaining part of the UK. this is extremely unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

[Dauphin]

john knox

anyway, lt's interesting how close this has become, although perhaps not surprising, given the negative and lacklustre campaign fought by 'better together'. it seems the SNP have managed to position themselves as the radical, progressive option, opposing the unpopular establishment, while at the same time reassuring the naturally (small c) conservative scots by promising to change very little. they've played their hand very adroitly despite the uncertainty about what independence would bring.

The Yes campaign is a used car salesman's approach to a naive couple buying their first car. Deceive and don't give a **** about consequences long as the car gets off the lot. The No campaign is boring Norman the accountant whispering home truths no-one wants to hear.

It is not adroit in my view, unless adroit is a euphemism for insidious.

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh stop being a ******. You've been demonstrably wrong about Northern Ireland every time the subject has come up. A majority of the N.Irish want to stay in the union, and nothing Scotland does is going to change that. For one thing Northern Ireland is hugely subsidized by the rest of the UK.

I specified that the majority of unionist support is found in counties Antrim and Down. Aside from that - Northern Ireland is gone. Repartition is the only solution to maintain a Unionist Northern Ireland.

Again - Scotland voting yes would mean that Northern Ireland would be gone as well. Guarantee it.

[C0ckney]

well that's your view; i and others see it differently. if the yes campaign wins, none of that will matter though, will it.

edit: x-post for dauphin.

[Ben Kenobi]

the situation, and historical context, in northern ireland is nothing like that in scotland, and the analogy is usually made by americans, who typically know nothing about the subject. the question in northern ireland is not one of independence (economically unrealistic, no popular support), but rather choosing between two countries, the UK and ireland. there are two communities, one of which is overwhelmingly committed to the UK and the other, in which a plurality support remaining part of the UK. this is extremely unlikely to change in the foreseeable future.

The problem is that the divide is quite sharp with the vast majority in just 2 of the 5 counties. The old borders make little sense in a Catholic majority northern Ireland unless the goal is to unify Ireland.

[Dauphin]

well that's your view; i and others see it differently. if the yes campaign wins, none of that will matter though, will it.

edit: x-post for dauphin.

I'd like to be wrong, but I just see the Salmond approach to be all show and no substance. The show is clever, but still a show. And it will matter - if I am right then things will go badly post I-day, if I am wrong then Scotland will be in a golden age. If we are both wrong, SSDD.

[C0ckney]

i meant that our, or anyone else's, views on the yes and no campaigns' approaches won't matter after a 'yes' vote. i agree that it's open to debate what will happen in an independent scotland. my view is broadly positive, though i don't really like the SNP or some elements of the yes campaign's petty nationalism, but i'm still optimistic that a smaller state will be more responsive to its citizens' needs and better able to cope with the challenges the future presents. one very positive aspect of the whole independence issue has been the wider political debate it has sparked about the future of scotland and what kind of society people want to live in.

[Imran Siddiqui]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11089388/North-Korea-backs-Scottish-independence.html

North Korea is quietly backing the Yes vote in Scotland and would be keen to increase trade with a newly independent Edinburgh, according to officials of the Pyongyang regime.

So supporting Scottish Independence is letting the terrorist states win.

[Bereta_Eder]

The telegraph is always a prime comedy source. Every country has at least one. Bild is another for Germany.

Actually the whole devolution of nation states seems to have been facilitated by the EU (which is a bit odd, a centralized authority giving impetus to create smaller national entities).

Plus catalonia held a pretty big rally asking for independence referendum (and I'm pretty sure colon and dannubis are painting their placards as we speak).

As long as luxembourg is in the EU (and one of the richest if not the richest) then size doesn't really matter (in making an argument against independence)

[Colon™]

(and I'm pretty sure colon and dannubis are painting their placards as we speak)

I've got little time for Flemish nationalism. I believe this isn't the first time I'm telling you this so I don't understand why you keep alluding to it.

[Dr Strangelove]

The problem is that the divide is quite sharp with the vast majority in just 2 of the 5 counties. The old borders make little sense in a Catholic majority northern Ireland unless the goal is to unify Ireland.

But there isn't a Roman Catholic majority in North Ireland. Protestans make up 42% of the population, Roman Catholics make up 41%, 17% don't list a religion.

[Ben Kenobi]

But there isn't a Roman Catholic majority in North Ireland. Protestans make up 42% of the population, Roman Catholics make up 41%, 17% don't list a religion.

That survey is outdated. There is a Catholic plurality now. Majority in all save County Antrim and Down.