The Great Scottish FREEEEEEEEEDOOOMMMMM!!!!1!!! vote

[Fake Boris]

I think you're wrong, but I don't have time to devote to this debate right now. Have a nice day anyway.

[C0ckney]

you can hardly blame people for being suspicious when we remember what happened in the wake of the 1979 referendum.

[kentonio]

Sure, let's base our expectations of the political process on the events of nearly 35 years ago. A time when people mainly got their news via mainstream media channels that could be influenced by the political parties and when organizing national campaigns actually required established organizations like the unions as opposed to say Facebook.

[C0ckney]

i'm curious as to why you think that matters in this context; people knew they'd been lied to in 1979.

[kentonio]

Just so we're on the same page, how exactly do you think they were lied to?

[C0ckney]

and you can't deny that there are some interesting parallels, gordon brown perhaps playing the alec douglas-home role. however, as i've said, i expect that something will have to be conceded, though nothing too threatening to the established order i'm sure...

edit: the scots were promised a 'better' bill by alec douglas-home if they rejected the proposed assembly in 1979. the proposed assembly losing the vote (despite a slim majority of scots voting for it), this 'better' bill never materialised, and devolution didn't come about until labour got back into power.

[Dr Strangelove]

Currently there's also demand from England to have an assembly of its own created, an assembly which will have powers similar to Scotland's, so pressure from England and Scotland together may force Westminster to honor its promises.

[regexcellent]

The problem with English devolution is that the Labor party depends on Scottish votes to pass its policies in England, so English devolution is very much a Tory pet project.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

It is not a problem - it is good, more local decision making no reason for Scots to vote on English issues, and if the English prefer Tories, that is who should make the decisions for them.

[Dinner]

HC is wrong. The reason the American average life expectancy is lower than all first world countries IS because everyone else has universal care and we don't. There are millions who go without care in this country so they die prematurely from easily preventable things.

[Dauphin]

Like morbid obesity.

[Ben Kenobi]

I know it upsets you, but African Americans are American too.

I'm not sure you understood that comment. Race is a factor in longevity. If we're assessing the actual quality of care, we have to take into account that the sample of patients are different.

White Americans live longer than White Britons. Black Americans live longer than Black Britons. Yet, on an average Britons would have higher longevity. Do you understand why this happens?

[kentonio]

White Americans live longer than White Britons. Black Americans live longer than Black Britons. Yet, on an average Britons would have higher longevity. Do you understand why this happens?

Actually the difference in life expectancy between black and white in the UK is pretty much negligible. The last figures I saw were from 2001 and even back then the difference was only 1 year for males and around 0.2 years difference for females. The largest outlier at the time was the Bangladeshi community at 1.5 and 0.8 years (m/f). That's in contrast to the 4.7 years (m) and 3.3 years (f) you had in the US (2010) between white and black communities.

Your overall point was wrong incidentally. The lastest figures I can find (2012) from the Office for National Statistics show the life expectancy at birth in the UK for the general population (so including any minor lowering for differences between ethnic groups) is 78.71 years for males and 82.58 years for females. Contrast that with just the white ethnic demographic from the US (where you get your highest results) which the CDC show as 76.5 for males and 81.3 for females for 2010. Unless the life expectancy for white Americans has risen by more than 2 years for men and over a year for women in the period between 2010 and 2012 then your conclusion is mistaken.

[kentonio]

If anyone has reliable UK figures from more recently than 2012, or US (preferably CDC) figures from more recently than 2010 it'd be great to see them by the way.

[Dr Strangelove]

I wish I had a National Health System. I hate it when patients go away and die because they can't afford to pay for treatment.