Supreme Court rules in favor of public legislative prayers

[molly bloom]

It's called having an open mind

You're confusing open mind with open spaces.

Having an empty head is not the same as keeping an open mind.

[Sava]

BK wrong about history?

I'm shocked.

[molly bloom]

BK wrong about history?

I'm shocked.

News, pictures at 11.00.


Did the sun rise in the East today ? Then Sister Bendy will get his facts wrong.

[Pax]

Right. Mr. 'Never has a bad word to say about Texans'.

You, your school and it's curriculum do not represent the whole of Texas anymore than David Koresh. I imagine your two groups are on the same field.

[Pax]

Texas History where is David Koresh from?

[Sava]

Texas History where is David Koresh from?

Houston
(I looked it up)

I thought the twist was gonna be: he's from British Columbia

[MrFun]

Satanists and wiccans pretty much only exist for the FUCK YOU DAD I'M A PAGAN NOW factor.

This is amusing, not upsetting.

What's amusing is that when Christians beat their chest while repeating "freedom of religion" like a mantra, they forget that not every religious person is a Christian, and that there is such a thing as atheists and agnostics.

They don't stop and consider that allowing public prayer like this, in places where other business needs to get done, that you have to make time for religious people of any other beliefs to have their turn/time for prayer. It's fuckin' ridiculous.

[Kidlicious]

I don't find Satanists amusing, unless they are atheists and failing.

[Berzerker]

I'm free to pray, which is the point of this thread.

The thread's about a town council using taxpayer resources to impose their organized hypocrisy on others... You are not free to pray at work. You are free to pray on your own dime and your own time, not mine.

Ok, and how does that answer my question that the pledge is fair game for a civics class.

It aint fair game for anything, the state has no business - the 1st Amendment says so - establishing religion. The state has no business telling children to pledge their loyalty to the state's god.

Kids having to recite it everyday was 40-50 years ago. You're chasing a boogeyman, Berz.

Well that aint true either

Everyday? No

No, nor do those documents tell children to pledge their allegiance to a god.

but we go over the constitution and the preamble to the declaration of independence.

The Constitution and the preamble to the Declaration of Independence?

It tells them that God exists and their natural rights come from God - which is the thesis of my very first class every year.

Like I said, the Declaration of Independence does not tell children to swear an oath pledging their allegiance to the state's god.

My job is to teach civics. You might not care, but I have to care about the things that Americans find important.

You're not a public school teacher

If they attack the Christian missions like San Antonio, are Christians entitled to engage in self-defense?

I say Christians committed cultural genocide against the natives and your rebuttal is no they didn't because some Indians attacked a mission?

Yeah, I do see liberty. And I complain about the recent laws because they strip liberty from Americans. I've been here long enough to appreciate what America was like, and I'd like to get back towards this instead of Obama's fascist crap.

And you think we've only been stripped of our liberty recently?

That's not what the preamble says.

Not that the preamble conveys legislative authority, but what does it say Ben?

Moreover, the Founders argued then as now that it was essential for a civilized society to have a moral underpinning in Christianity if the republic were to survive.

They forgot to mention that in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, including the preamble.

As a teacher it's required that I teach what the American Founders actually believed, not just what modernists and their wishful thinking prefer were true.

Who wrote the 1st Amendment? They're responsible for the prohibition on establishing religion, not modernists.

[regexcellent]

What's amusing is that when Christians beat their chest while repeating "freedom of religion" like a mantra, they forget that not every religious person is a Christian, and that there is such a thing as atheists and agnostics.

They don't stop and consider that allowing public prayer like this, in places where other business needs to get done, that you have to make time for religious people of any other beliefs to have their turn/time for prayer. It's fuckin' ridiculous.

You're not going to find that many Christians doing much more than rolling their eyes at the childish stupidity of it all.

[Ben Kenobi]

The thread's about a town council using taxpayer resources to impose their organized hypocrisy on others

As a historian, I take great offense at the attempt to eradicate prayer from public meetings. Historically there's absolutely zero justification or precedence for it's removal. I would argue it's part of American culture.

You are not free to pray at work.

We even hold prayer every class, both to open and close.

You are free to pray on your own dime and your own time, not mine.

Tough titties. This is America.

It aint fair game for anything

I have an obligation to teach what America is actually about. And this includes the Pledge. Insofar as it is a part of American history, it's free game for a civics class.

the state has no business - the 1st Amendment says so - establishing religion.

And I can quote just as well, their justification for not setting up a 'Church of the United States'. Prayer to God doesn't violate the establishment clause.

The state has no business telling children to pledge their loyalty to the state's god.

Well, I'm sorry, this is America. You don't have the right to tell other Americans that they cannot pray to God.

Well that aint true either

What ain't true? The pledge is not recited every day anymore, Berz. Nor are students required to recite it. You're 40+ years out of date.

The Constitution and the preamble to the Declaration of Independence?

Yes sir. First class right out of the gates. Natural law and how rights are guaranteed by God.

You're not a public school teacher

Kids still have to pass standardized tests and the Pledge is on it.

I say Christians committed cultural genocide against the natives and your rebuttal is no they didn't because some Indians attacked a mission?

And I say they didn't. You have a history degree Berz?

And you think we've only been stripped of our liberty recently?

I think it started in 1913 with income tax, personally. But then I actually read Road to Serfdom.

Not that the preamble conveys legislative authority, but what does it say Ben?

"That governments were established among men?"

Yes, it does, Berz.

They forgot to mention that in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, including the preamble.

Yeah, you need a refresher. That's how Natural Law works, Berz. It comes straight from Aquinas via Locke.

Who wrote the 1st Amendment? They're responsible for the prohibition on establishing religion, not modernists.

What? Do you think it was Jefferson?

It was George Mason, someone who doesn't get nearly enough press. Mason explicitly drew a distinction between disestablishmentarianism and rejection of Christian prayer, arguing that it made the Christian faith stronger. One would think if his intent were to ban public Christian prayer, he would have said so.

[Ben Kenobi]

They don't stop and consider that allowing public prayer like this, in places where other business needs to get done, that you have to make time for religious people of any other beliefs to have their turn/time for prayer. It's ****in' ridiculous.

Worst. Christian. Ever.

You really believe that a business taking time out to pray makes them weaker?

[Imran Siddiqui]

What's amusing is that when Christians beat their chest

May I just ask why you call yourself a Christian when you say things like this, as if Christians are something other than you? Or do you beat your chest repeating "freedom of religion" like a mantra?

[Pax]

Ben, Even if you taught math, I think you would find a way to distort it.

[molly bloom]

I don't find Satanists amusing, unless they are atheists and failing.

Uh, if they believe in Satan as a supernatural deity, then they aren't atheists.

Good grief.