Roman Catholic Church lowers its standards

[Ben Kenobi]

Just don't tell me not to follow what I think Jesus would want me to do.

What makes you believe that Jesus wants you to affirm gay marriage? Honest question, rah.

When you keep saying I'm not a good catholic because I don't believe everything exactly as the church preaches, I consider that judging. Feel free to call it whatever you want.

I have simply stated that I believe Catholics should obey the magisterium and follow the catechism. I have not stated that 'you, rah, are a bad Catholic.' You asked, "is it my job". Yes, actually. It's my job. Nor have I said I'm a good Catholic. The standard is not me - it's the catechism.

I've repeated said that I am a sinner and that I've made a ton of mistakes.

[Sava]

I'd argue in favor of that.

Because you aren't a psychopath.


(oh yeah, it's also true)

[Bereta_Eder]

What makes you believe that Jesus wants you to affirm gay marriage? Honest question, rah.

I'm a little bored so I'll answer that.
Jesus said some things and many were very nice.
His central meaning was love and compassion.

THis is something undillitued, uncompromising, can't be dissected, assigned etc
It's... catholic

So in the times of yore the teachings of christ got unfortunately and inevitably accomodated to these times.
Today, more progressed ethically than those who lived before (in christianity timeline table that is) we can embrace gay people's marriage and thus be close to the word of god.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'm a little bored so I'll answer that.
Jesus said some things and many were very nice.
His central meaning was love and compassion.

THis is something undillitued, uncompromising, can't be dissected, assigned etc
It's... catholic

So in the times of yore the teachings of christ got unfortunately and inevitably accomodated to these times.
Today, more progressed ethically than those who lived before (in christianity timeline table that is) we can embrace gay people's marriage and thus be close to the word of god.

See also: slavery in Biblical times and in, say, 1800s.

[Ben Kenobi]

Jesus said some things and many were very nice.
His central meaning was love and compassion.

The problem with this is Matthew 19, where he says:

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh.

THis is something undillitued, uncompromising, can't be dissected, assigned etc
It's... catholic

Jesus came to free people from their sins, not bind them up inside of them. He states, and very clearly, that people need to leave their sins behind.

So in the times of yore the teachings of christ got unfortunately and inevitably accomodated to these times.

This is contrary to Christ's message where he argues against the will of the times, and for transcendent morality.

Today, more progressed ethically than those who lived before (in christianity timeline table that is) we can embrace gay people's marriage and thus be close to the word of god.

Except that he specifically points out what marriage is for, and how God made men and women because they are a complement to one another. Jesus wasn't here on earth in the time of Adam and Eve, and yet he argues that God created them male and female for a reason.

[Ben Kenobi]

slavery in Biblical times and in, say, 1800s.

Last I checked, slavery predated Christianity, and Christians were the ones who banned it.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ok Ben.
But this issue needs to be resolved, don't you agree?

There are people of gay sexual persuasion and they have need of god too.

What would you say if they told you (or told a heterosexual) the only way to the kingdom of god is through another bloke's .... (you understand)
Wouldn't that seem unnatural to you?
So gay people according to you must have no claim to god?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Last I checked, slavery predated Christianity, and Christians were the ones who banned it.

1800 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. What took them so long?

[Ben Kenobi]

But this issue needs to be resolved, don't you agree?

I do. I just don't see how the answer changes for the world of today, the answer is the same answer as it has always been. Marriage is between one man and one woman for life.

There are people of gay sexual persuasion and they have need of god too.

True, but we don't identify people by their desires. You are no more a 'gay person', than a person with certain predispositions. An alcoholic can overcome their addiction - their personality is not defined by the fact that they have issues with drinking.

What would you say if they told you (or told a heterosexual) the only way to the kingdom of god is through another block's .... (you understand)

I would point out what Jesus said and how I believed Jesus was correct on this issue. I would also point out that, if natural law worked out the way it does, why does sex between a man and a woman produce babies? Surely if Jesus intended for marriage to be between a man and a man, sex between the two would produce babies. It does not. Ergo, one can conclude that there is a substantive difference between the two.

This is how natural law works, through observation.

Wouldn't that seem unnatural to you?

It would, but again, I would simply point out what Jesus says about this.

So gay people according to you must have no claim to god?

Where did I say that? Jesus goes on to illustrate that marriage is not for everyone and not everyone is called to marry.

[Bereta_Eder]

Where did I say that? Jesus goes on to illustrate that marriage is not for everyone and not everyone is called to marry.

Ok.
But do you believe that they are "sinners"/ banned from the kingdom of heavens etc or that simply they can't be married in a church?

[Ben Kenobi]

1800 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. What took them so long?

Rome kinda fell apart.

[Ben Kenobi]

But do you believe that they are "sinners"/ banned from the kingdom of heavens

Everyone is a sinner in the eyes of God, and everyone is called to repent from their sins. If they repent and turn away, they will be saved.

simply they can't be married in a church?

They are not even barred from marriage. Should a gay man find a willing woman, then it would be permissible for them to marry. They just cannot marry another man or a woman another woman.

[Bereta_Eder]

So according to you homosexuality is a sin from which one must timely repent...
I'm sorry to say this is the position of many churches as well as far as I know...

[Ben Kenobi]

So according to you homosexuality is a sin from which one must timely repent

It's the first chapter of the Gospel of Kenobi.

Jesus really was a cool dude.

I don't say it. The bible says it. It's one thing to claim it's personal opinion - but it's right there. Anybody can open it up and read it for themselves. Even Catholics!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Rome kinda fell apart.

~400 years after Rome's murder of Christ.