I've gotten another jury summons

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well you guys do anyways... (do the Orthodox?)

[Hauldren Collider]

Most of the catholics I know pretty much only go on christmas and easter, and that includes my mom.

[Imran Siddiqui]

That's wonderful. I'm glad to hear that Most of the Catholics you know = the adherents of the world's largest religious denomination

[SlowwHand]

I can't remember, do they ask for a photo ID or just the summons? I could be a professional juror if no ID required.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well you guys do anyways... (do the Orthodox?)

They should. Some things we do differently, but this isn't one of them.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm glad to hear that Most of the Catholics you know = the adherents of the world's largest religious denomination

To be fair there is a wide, wide range of participation. I'm lucky, I know a fair number of really devout Catholics (I don't include myself). I regard them as personal inspirations in my own life.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh, I don't doubt that (wide range), but I was questioning the whole assuming that every Catholic is merely a 2 day a year worshipper ("its adherents" obviously implies 'all', not 'some').

[Ben Kenobi]

Part of my job is getting people up to speed where they should be in their faith. It's a fair criticism. I see it all the time at work. One of the reasons I'm thankful for the folks that taught me. They were impeccable.

[Hauldren Collider]

Oh, I don't doubt that (wide range), but I was questioning the whole assuming that every Catholic is merely a 2 day a year worshipper ("its adherents" obviously implies 'all', not 'some').

I'm sorry to hear about your sense of humor. Is it possible to get a new one?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Part of my job is getting people up to speed where they should be in their faith. It's a fair criticism. I see it all the time at work. One of the reasons I'm thankful for the folks that taught me. They were impeccable.

I hear, from blogs more than anything else, that Catholic Churches are a bit more packed than usual due to the favorability of Pope Francis. Have you observed that?

[Ben Kenobi]

I hear, from blogs more than anything else, that Catholic Churches are a bit more packed than usual due to the favorability of Pope Francis. Have you observed that?

Heh.

I'm a Benedict man. Even if I observed it, I'd not acknowledge so publicly.

I've lost a few friends over this, folks who are unwilling to accept that Francis is pope and who have issues with infalliability and the magisterial authority. I've been called a shill and popebot. I don't really care. I've walked that line where I was my own pope, and I have no desire to return to those days. Francis is a good pope. I'm happy he's pope and he's doing a good job so far. I think he deserves credit for shaking us out of our comfort zones. There have been terrible and difficult popes over the years, but Francis isn't one of them and he looks to be another excellent one and there have been three excellent popes that I've known.

And that's not a party line, btw. He's a good man. If folks are drawn to him because they believe he sincerely cares for them and their troubles and opens their eyes to how the Church actually is, then I'm all for it. If folks are drawn to him because they believe the Church is going to change on doctrine and will open up a Vatican III to accommodate their error, then I'm going to dump a bucket of cold water. On them and on some of my fellow catechumens.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Popebot

I would imagine that even the most ardent person would realize, you know, if you are Catholic, you gotta respect the Pope (maybe not love everything he does, but give him your respect). That's kind of part of the deal (at least I would say it is, from the outside).

[Ben Kenobi]

I would imagine that even the most ardent person would realize, you know, if you are Catholic, you gotta respect the Pope (maybe not love everything he does, but give him your respect). That's kind of part of the deal (at least I would say it is, from the outside).

It's not just about respect. It's obedience. That's what I mean about the magisterium. They have authority over all Catholics - by virtue of Christ's decision to establish the disciples. The bishops are the successors of the apostles and thus have God's authority in terms of teachings on faith and morals.

This is a core teaching of the church. Many of these folks are ex-protestants who are aggreived when they believe that the pope has started to teach error contrary to their own perception of the faith. The problem is that these folks aren't really converted. They may be our allies on many fields in that they agree with the social teaching of the church, but at the core, they believe they are their own authority and so long as the Pope agrees with them, they agree with the Pope.

I struggled with articles of the faith - especially baptism. It bothered me that what my family chose for me was a core part of how Jesus saw me. In the end, that is a teaching I had to come to understand and it's helped me eventually come to peace with some of the things my family has done. There's a wholeness, with the first part of my life in there along with everything after I was 19. Before there was a great breach, and that's a hard road, to leave everything behind and start anew.

I won't lie and say there haven't been times even after that I've struggled with things. Everybody goes through patches like this - but it's important to understand that you're making a submission in the will to Christ and to his apostles and to their successors, the bishops and the magisterium.

Many don't get that part, and they resist it and fight against it. That's part of why we have the problems we do with attendence and poor understanding of the Catholic faith. It's also not a popular teaching. It's gotten so I'll say, "if you're willing to come over because you are willing to put away what you had, then come". If you're coming over because you're on our side on the issues and feel we agree wtih you - that's a start, but it's wrongly ordered. Chesterton talks about this - we have a need for a Church to be right where we are wrong, not a church that is right where we are right."

I have a good friend who's family is ex-SSPX, who came over because they loved Benedict. And I'm the liberal here, arguing they should be patient with Francis and let the holy spirit do his job. It probably seems a strange perspective for folks here....

[Imran Siddiqui]

I tend to wonder if the Orthodox Church is also having these issues. I mean, there are number of conservative Protestants who are jumping to Orthodoxy due to a desire for liturgy, but not liberal Protestantism or Catholicism. Mostly due to social issues and a more demanding ethos in dealing with the former and the long standing anger with the later (even though there is agreement on a number of social issues, it seems conservative Protestants have a much greater mistrust than liberal Protestants, who are more than willing to do things with Catholics). I wonder if people who were raised Orthodox have to have these discussions with some of these converts; that there are some parts of the deal they have to submit to that those folks may not be all the keen on.

[Hauldren Collider]

They're just trading the pope for the political system of whatever country their particular branch of Orthodox Christianity is sourced from.