There's Something Absolutely Wrong with what we do to Boys...

[Hauldren Collider]

They take all the fun out of hating feminists.

QFT

[Kidlicious]

"Sorry to ruin your Black Panther party"

[notyoueither]

I want data, NYE. Hard data. That is the world I live in.

And the data that we have tell me that things are getting better, not worse.

You ignore data. You don't seem to give a **** about a cause of death for young men that is 260% higher in 2010 than it was in 1950.

I get it. You do not give a **** and will not give a ****. Not that your permission is needed though, so...

[Guynemer]

...and it's down almost 25% in the past 20 years.

[Guynemer]

I get it. You do not give a **** and will not give a ****. Not that your permission is needed though, so...

Also, what the blue **** does this even mean?

[notyoueither]

Do we wait for it to go back up before we wonder why it so much more likely to happen now than 40 years before that?

It means you're willfully ignorant about the topic and it is unlikely that you will change your mind.

[Guynemer]

Feel free to wonder why, but I have no idea why one would think it has something to do with gender roles, as opposed to, say, the presence of firearms in the home.

[notyoueither]

There were no guns in homes in the US in 1950?

I think it has a lot to do the way we socialise boys and young men. Gender roles would be one part. You don't think that these issues play a part when a young gay or effeminate man is bullied to the point of killing himself?

[Kidlicious]

Feel free to wonder why, but I have no idea why one would think it has something to do with gender roles, as opposed to, say, the presence of firearms in the home.

You just keep repeating the same bull****. Psychologists don't believe firearms cause suicide. I quoted one already. Did you not read it? I think you have cognitive dissonance. The truth is clear and you just can't see it.

[kentonio]

Can you give a reason for income inequality being bad other than some vagaries like "I think the iphone-owning, prius driving peasants will revolt"?

Chiefly because it leads to all sorts of horrible social and generational problems, which all send out the clear message that where you start out in life will largely determine what opportunities you have in it. Also it doesn't really matter a crap if your underclass have iphones and cars, social dissent tends to come from a feeling of injustice and inequality, not just from being hungry or whatever.

[ZEE]

I wonder who that ugly Bald dude is in Kid's avatar?

[notyoueither]

Incidentally, Canada has suicide rates for young men similar to those in the US. Guns are scarce.

2009
USA
M 15-19 11.6
M 20-24 20.8
F 15-19 3.2
F 20-24 4.1
Canada
M 15-19 12.6
M 20-24 17.1
F 15-19 5.2 
F 20-24 6.5

Canadian info here

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/hlth66f-eng.htm

[Guynemer]

There were no guns in homes in the US in 1950?

No, but overall, the number of households with a firearm has gone down in the last 20 years--the same timeframe that the suicide rate has decreased. Correlation is not causation, but that's at least something to look at as opposed to this supposed contradiction in how boys are raised.

I think it has a lot to do the way we socialise boys and young men. Gender roles would be one part. You don't think that these issues play a part when a young gay or effeminate man is bullied to the point of killing himself?

That has not been the issue of this thread. Of course that would be an issue for them. But what does that have to do with the screed Al posted, or the gibberish oh-so-reliably contributed by Kid? Moreover, attitudes towards gay and effeminate kids have gotten better over the past few years; obviously, we have a long way to go still, but things are certainly better now than they would have been in 1950!

Let's take a different tack. Are the ways masculinity and gender roles are presented significantly different in Canada, as opposed to the U.S.?

[Guynemer]

I see you ninja'd me re:Canada; what are their rates like over time? Do they have the same dramatic swings that the US has had?

Looks like I found the answer:



So, a change, but not as dramatic in either direction, and also the time shift isn't exactly the same. Any thoughts as to the discrepancy?

[notyoueither]

And apparently, it's not just Canada and the US.

http://www.nber.org/chapters/c10690.pdf

Suicide is now the second or third leading cause of death for youths in the
United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and many countries of
Western Europe

Too many guns in the UK and France, etc?