There's Something Absolutely Wrong with what we do to Boys...

[Dinner]

We have to be hard on boys. Otherwise they will grow up to be girls, and society can't afford to support everybody having such low productivity.

What do you want to bet that Mrs Horse, who makes more than you, would have your balls for such a comment?

[Dinner]

Women's suicide attempts are cries for help. Men actually try to kill themselves.

If you want something done right, get a man.

Now this I have actually heard to be true. Girls will cut across the vain which has virtually no chance of being successful as long as someone shows up in a couple hours. Guys, however, will blow their brains out or jump from the 80th floor of a building. Guess which one is more effective at ending life?

[Hauldren Collider]

What makes you think I read your posts?

This?

[notyoueither]

No, but overall, the number of households with a firearm has gone down in the last 20 years--the same timeframe that the suicide rate has decreased. Correlation is not causation, but that's at least something to look at as opposed to this supposed contradiction in how boys are raised.

That does not explain Canada, or anywhere else where the average home is not an armoury.

That has not been the issue of this thread. Of course that would be an issue for them. But what does that have to do with the screed Al posted, or the gibberish oh-so-reliably contributed by Kid?

The way we socialise boys and young men is something I've been consistently bringing up the whole time, and it's the subject of the video that Al disagrees with. It's not just the bullied. Who is bullying them?

Al hasn't said a peep since the OP. Why you would want to pay much attention to Kid is beyond me, except as a way to ignore the problem.

Moreover, attitudes towards gay and effeminate kids have gotten better over the past few years; obviously, we have a long way to go still, but things are certainly better now than they would have been in 1950!

Things are obviously worse in many ways for young men than they were in 1950.

Let's take a different tack. Are the ways masculinity and gender roles are presented significantly different in Canada, as opposed to the U.S.?

Canada and the US are very similar culturally, with differences for region and laws. That paper claiming that this is an issue in Aus, NZ, and Western Europe should be an additional alarm bell, but I see you've already dismissed that out of hand as well.

[notyoueither]

Canada has pretty high gun ownership actually. Not as high as the US, but among the highest in the developed world. I am acquainted with a number of Canadian gun owners.

There are far fewer homes with guns in Canada than in the US, but the suicide rate for 15-19 yo men was higher. Guns are not a cause of suicide. Durrr.

[Dinner]

It must be your ****ty weather.

[notyoueither]

Must be. Our young women are significantly more successful in topping themselves as well.

Ice floes cause suicide!

[KrazyHorse]

Perhaps suicides cause ice floes (sign of God's displeasure)

[The Mad Monk]

This?

Ooh, burn.

[Ban Kenobi]

Some research shows an association between household firearm ownership and gun suicide rates.^[10][11] For example, it was found that individuals in a firearm owning home are close to five times more likely to commit suicide than those individuals who do not own firearms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence#Suicide

Maybe the notion that guns are a factor in suicide isn't so stupid after all.

[Kidlicious]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence#Suicide

Maybe the notion that guns are a factor in suicide isn't so stupid after all.

Why don't women hang themselves or breath exaust fumes more often?

Edit: men are over 4 times more likely to use those methods.

[Kidlicious]

Suicide by firearm accounts for less than 2% of suicides in the UK, yet men there commit suicide over three times more there just as in the US.

[Elok]

Even if you can establish that suicide rates have gone up, how do you guys plan to prove a link between them and the decline of machismo?

[Kidlicious]

Median males have lost ground relative to median females. Being able to do routine tasks slightly better (whether drilling pieces of engines together or adding up columns of numbers) has lost value. Women's talents near the middle of the income distribution (conscientiousness, cooperation, people skills) have become relatively more valuable.

At the top end of the income distribution it is another world entirely. Men still dominate the far right hand tail of the talent and ambition distributions.

Women's lives will continue to get tougher in the middle and bottom of the socioeconomic ladder (especially those who value children and married life).

A lot of the men making it to the top started out in accounting. It's the best major if you want to be a leader. Really it's the only worthwhilê business degree.

Women tend to have poor hand eye coordination and mechanical intelligence which limits them in a lot of jobs.

[Kidlicious]

Even if you can establish that suicide rates have gone up, how do you guys plan to prove a link between them and the decline of machismo?

I'm not saying it's due to the decline in machismo. But one cause is the lack of status and respect for men who have low income, unemployed and divorced. Of course it's always been the case. What's different now is the media. One example is when a man has sex with his students he's labeled a rapist and we see a mug shot. When a women has sex with a student she achieves rockstar status and we see a glamour shot. Things changed in the sixties when the tv industry discovered that women enjoy watching people bash men. Now the common belief is that women HAVE problems and mdn ARE problems, which is what we see here with some people saying just "man up."