There's Something Absolutely Wrong with what we do to Boys...

[Kidlicious]

The big problem with divorce is the parents manipulating the children. It's emotional and psychological abuse, and it's ****ing kids up and the family courts don't do ****.

[Guynemer]

Maybe, but the divorce rate and youth suicide rate have correlated since the late '40s.

We've already been through the correlation/causation discussion.

[Kidlicious]

Guynemer thinks that the only problem is access to guns and no amount of evidence will convince him otherwise.

[Ban Kenobi]

Whereas you've claimed men kill themselves because people expect them to provide for their families and you've provided no evidence for your position.

[Fake Boris]

Isn't weeping over the fate of masculinity a girly thing to do?

[notyoueither]

We've already been through the correlation/causation discussion.

Convenient that you say that after having brought up guns.

How are we supposed to get data about causes of successful suicides? Ouija Boards?

[Elok]

Given the sheer amount of stuff that's changed since the 1940s--and the difficulty of establishing solid data on something as ephemeral as a society's support for notions of masculinity--I don't see an easy way for you to argue your point either.

[Kidlicious]

Whereas you've claimed men kill themselves because people expect them to provide for their families and you've provided no evidence for your position.

Unemployment, low income and divorce are all predicters if male suicide. You've got to be a dumb **** to not realize that men know that they have to provide for women to get love and respect. What planet do you live on? You should slap yourself for being so stupid as to demand evidence for this.

[Kidlicious]

Given the sheer amount of stuff that's changed since the 1940s--and the difficulty of establishing solid data on something as ephemeral as a society's support for notions of masculinity--I don't see an easy way for you to argue your point either.

When little boys ask mommy why she loves daddy and mommy says because he's a good provider nothing has changed for men.

[Guynemer]

Convenient that you say that after having brought up guns.

How are we supposed to get data about causes of successful suicides? Ouija Boards?

I think if you go back and read what I wrote, you'll find that I never suggested that gun ownership is a cause of suicide.

[Kidlicious]

I think if you go back and read what I wrote, you'll find that I never suggested that gun ownership is a cause of suicide.

Good because it isn't.

[DirtyMartini]

Unemployment, low income and divorce are all predicters if male suicide. You've got to be a dumb **** to not realize that men know that they have to provide for women to get love and respect. What planet do you live on? You should slap yourself for being so stupid as to demand evidence for this.

What does providing for women have do to with anything? Being jobless, broke and unloved is sufficiently depressing all on its own.

[Elok]

I've actually lost the thread, here. What exactly is supposed to be causing male failure? At times it sounds like people are saying it's disrespect for their masculinity, while at others it's because they're being held to traditional male expectations like being the breadwinner. Or not being a girly boy. I think it might be that there are three slightly-different arguments going on, but I'm not sure.

[Kidlicious]

I've actually lost the thread, here. What exactly is supposed to be causing male failure? At times it sounds like people are saying it's disrespect for their masculinity, while at others it's because they're being held to traditional male expectations like being the breadwinner. Or not being a girly boy. I think it might be that there are three slightly-different arguments going on, but I'm not sure.

NYE seens to be saying men should be more feminine. Albe seems to be saying men should be more masculine. I don't care about either one. The problem for me is that boys are not properly informed about the problems they will face as men such as finding a good wife that doesn't just love you for your money etc.

[DirtyMartini]

One day may dad sat me down and told me the three great truths of the universe --

1) Life is intolerable.
2) It is only getting worse.
3) There is no end in sight.

Worst 5th birthday party ever...