There's Something Absolutely Wrong with what we do to Boys...

[Ben Kenobi]

There is something ****ed up when girls and women are free from the Victorian straight-jacket of how they are supposed to behave, but men are still very much bound.

That's right ladies, the problem is that men aren't freaky enough. Ugh.

[notyoueither]

No, not really, not outside of cliched entertainment.

We don't do anything more ****ed up to boys than we do to girls, and we do significantly less ****ed up things than we used to. All this whining about masculinity and men's place and men's rights... it's just insecurity. Grow a ****ing pair, and live your ****ing life. This **** isn't hard.

QED.

[Ben Kenobi]

We don't do anything more ****ed up to boys than we do to girls, and we do significantly less ****ed up things than we used to. All this whining about masculinity and men's place and men's rights... it's just insecurity. Grow a ****ing pair, and live your ****ing life. This **** isn't hard.

As an educator, the gaps would worry me, but it's nice to be a modernist because I can simply argue that bad things are good things.

Boys are not doing really great these days. We all say, 'there's plenty of outlets', but what outlets do we have for the folks who aren't 6'5'' at 15 and 300+ pounds? Look at what's happening with the Ducks. On one hand we have folks like you, Guy, blasting the 'outright misogyny' they exhibit - but that's exactly Al's point. When did hunting and fishing become 'anti-women'? When did gun ownership become 'anti-women'?

I'm going to start a poll to see the number of polytubbies who have hunted and fished.

[Kidlicious]

Guynemer, already got a pair. Otherwise how would I go **** myself? Did you watch the video? Why do you think boys join gangs? Is that what you tell your patients, join a gang?

[Guynemer]

QED.

QED what?

[C0ckney]

Men are competitive. Every man sees a rival in his brother men. Societies have traditionally fostered this sense of competition through war, sport, and economics.

.....

But this competitive desire to be an alpha male is incongruous with the forced egalitarianism of modern Western society. Not only are all men equal but all women are equal to men, as well. Not only is this contrary to our biological impulses but it is contrary to hundreds of millennia of cultural ideas of manhood.

this is why people should read more social history. a lot of what you write seems to be based on this idea of this 'natural state' of man, which has very little basis in reality. in fact we are much more individualistic than we have been at almost any time in history. consider that for most of our history there was no private ownership of land (as we would understand it today) and agriculture was collective. men in the same trade, instead of competing against each other as they do in a capitalist society, formed themselves into associations and guilds to protect their interests and provide mutual assistance. and so on and so forth.

[Ben Kenobi]

instead of competing against each other as they do in a capitalist society, formed themselves into associations and guilds to protect their interests and provide mutual assistance. and so on and so forth.

Apparently feudalism is a superior state to private property ownership.

[Guynemer]

QED.

I think we're actually talking past each other here.

I don't care if a guy shows emotions or is effeminate. That has literally zero effect on me. What I'm trying to say is live YOUR life however the **** YOU want to live it (so long as you aren't being a ****ing *******), and hang the ideas of "masculinity" or whatever the **** you want to call it.

[Ben Kenobi]

You're not concerned about the impending doctor shortages, Guy?

[notyoueither]

QED what?

Grow a ****ing pair

Question the status quo, attempt to discuss possible causes of young men being alienated and all too often killing themselves or someone else...

and be screamed at to BE A MAN!

I think we're actually talking past each other here.

I don't care if a guy shows emotions or is effeminate. That has literally zero effect on me. What I'm trying to say is live YOUR life however the **** YOU want to live it (so long as you aren't being a ****ing *******), and hang the ideas of "masculinity" or whatever the **** you want to call it.

Grand! However, it's not all about you. It's about a society that drives a lot of young men to destructive paths which sometimes end in suicide and or homicide(s), but thanks very much for letting us all know what's OK for you personally.

[Dr Strangelove]

This is an odd line of thought for a Marine officer. Perhaps you should discuss it with your colonel.

[C0ckney]

there's also other stuff, al claims that

We need to recognize how modern society, influenced by egalitarianism and feminism, disempowers men and how excesses like criminality, violence, depression, and suicide, are biological reactions to this cultural castration.

well, violence, which is most of criminality too, has been falling, for a very long time. in fact we are living in the least violent time in human history. depression is kind of difficult because it's only been recognised relatively recently, and any increase may be down to the improved detection of mental illness. i don't know about suicide, although i would imagine that as society is less violent and more prosperous than it has ever been, fewer people would commit suicide. however, if anyone has any data that says otherwise, please let me know.

[Kidlicious]

The male suicide rate increases with age. It's obviously a function of alienation.

[Guynemer]

Grand! However, it's not all about you. It's about a society that drives a lot of young men to destructive paths which sometimes end in suicide and or homicide(s), but thanks very much for letting us all know what's OK for you personally.

Again, talking past each other. Not talking about me here. What I am saying is that is what people need to do: ignore everyone else talking about masculinity. It is bull****.

Also, as COckney rightly points out, violence is becoming more rare, not more frequent.

[C0ckney]

The male suicide rate increases with age. It's obviously a function of alienation.

yes. although of course there are many different factors.