Now you see, this is homophobic, and it makes Christianity look bad, and I feel ashamed by association.

[C0ckney]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Kempling

This happened. My field, my province. I teach now in Texas and good riddance to the BCTF. They tried to ruin a good man who taught for 20 years in Quesnel, about an hour and a half from where I grew up.

Do I have much sympathy after what they did to Kempling? No.

it's good that that bigot isn't teaching or counselling children in the public school system anymore. canada

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you agree with Mr. Kempling that homosexuality is an 'immoral perversion' that can be cured?

I believe that people can overcome their unwanted desires. I compare it to alcoholism. With treatment, and the desire of the client, yes, folks who do not want to have these attractions can overcome them and live a happily married life with a woman.

The key here - is desire. The person has to want treatment. You cannot and should not force it on anyone because it will not be successful. I agree with Kempling here.

Do I believe it's appropriate for a high school counsellor to refer for these? No, I don't. But - that's not what Kempling was doing. Yes, he was a public school teacher. Yes, he was a public school counsellor - he has the degrees and certification to do both. He worked as both for close to 20 years before he ever encountered trouble with the BCTF. And it wasn't for referring students for this treatment - it was for his opposition to the use of Xtra West as a classroom resource.

I think he's right here - what educational purpose does it have in the classroom? None whatsoever.

Ask me what impression that left on me - without a degree and pursuing a degree at the time that someone who is eminently qualified and a far more experienced teacher would be blacklisted? What kind of protection would I have - having none of his track record and seniority? Absolutely nothing. This man is a fantastic teacher and the BCTF tried to destroy his career.

This is wrong. I don't care who you are - destroying the career of a good teacher is wrong.

Do you think all political liberals are to some degree complicit in his treatment?

The mission of the BCTF is to act as a representation of teachers in the union. All public school teachers in British Columbia are required to be a member of the BCTF - it is a closed shop. Rather than defend one of their own - they expelled him - making it very difficult for him to earn a living. Do I believe that some liberals are complicit? Absolutely. All liberals? No. Not all liberals believe that gay marriage is such a worthy cause as to destroy other people's lives.

It's curious, yeah you were catholic and vehemently pro life, but i don't recall you getting any disproportionate disrespect for that here. But it seems like something has radicalized (or the conservative equivalent) you.

You asked, I answered. This is what radicalized me on this issue. At the time I wasn't even a Catholic when this was going on, (as I didn't convert until 2005).

The BCTF in attacking Kempling's livelihood over his opposition to gay marriage hardened my opinion of the entire 'gay rights' movement. I came to realize that I was a target and I had an obligation to stand beside my brother in the faith.

[Ben Kenobi]

it's good that that bigot isn't teaching or counselling children in the public school system anymore. canada

Yes, I'm sure the students are better off in losing a fantastic teacher. The best way to get a good public school system is to fire all the competent teachers.

[C0ckney]

who fired all the competent teachers? they got a bigot to resign. according to your wiki article, he left of his own accord in any case, after several warnings about spreading his bigoted views, and some disciplinary action after he flouted those warnings.

[Ben Kenobi]

who fired all the competent teachers? they got a bigot to resign. according to your wiki article, he left of his own accord in any case, after several warnings about spreading his bigoted views, and some disciplinary action based on that.

Then you need to read more closely. He was fired, and the BCTF blackballed him to remove him from teaching from the public school system anywhere in BC.

Again - it was 100 percent politics. The man had 20 years of teaching experience prior. All of a sudden he became incompetent? Bull****. Purging the system of folks like Kempling is like Stalin's purge. Didn't work for Stalin and isn't working for the BCTF.

[-Jrabbit]

What's the surprise? Liberals tip crap. Maybe 5-10 percent at most.

Liberals will deny tips to conservatives just for being conservatives.

I call BS. Please stop conflating your personal experience and bizarre perceptions with the real world.

Political views are irrelevant to a restaurant meal or to pizza delivery. But if you go looking for trouble (e.g., wearing a socially or politically divisive pin/slogan), trouble will find you.

In restaurants, I'm a 20% tipper. Consistently, unless my server is noticeably inept.
But they NEVER get stiffed. My minimum is 10%. It's hard work and the salary is squat.

Basically, if you can't afford the tip, you should eat at a place where they ask, "Do you want fries with that?"

[C0ckney]

Then you need to read more closely. He was fired, and the BCTF blackballed him to remove him from teaching from the public school system anywhere in BC.

Again - it was 100 percent politics. The man had 20 years of teaching experience prior. All of a sudden he became incompetent? Bull****. Purging the system of folks like Kempling is like Stalin's purge. Didn't work for Stalin and isn't working for the BCTF.

This led to a hearing in May 2002 before the BCCT Disciplinary Committee, which ruled that Kempling’s statements created an environment that was hostile and discriminatory to gay and lesbian students and suspended him for one month.

2004 letter of reprimand

The disciplinary action was taken with the stated goal of "ensur[ing] that there is no poisoned environment for either students in schools or staff working in Board facilities in the District. District schools must remain places where there is sensitivity to issues and where an atmosphere of tolerance and respect exist.

In 2005, while his case was before the Human Rights Tribunal, Kempling became the Christian Heritage Party of Canada candidate in the riding of Cariboo—Prince George. In that capacity, Kempling wrote another letter to the editor criticizing the recently proposed Bill C-38, the Civil Marriage Act, which allowed same-sex couples to marry. Quesnel School District suspended him for three months as a breach of its earlier direction

On 28 January 2008, Kempling was cited again by the BCCT for "conduct unbecoming a teacher.

n June 2008, Kempling announced that he was leaving the public school system to work for a private school, allowing him to relinquish his BCCT certification.

that's what the article says. disciplinary action, because of his bigoted views, and then he left, presumably so he could continue to spread his bigoted views, without facing disaplinary action, for a private school. it seems you need to read your own source more closely.

[MRT144]

Its his sexual solidarity and social ostracization for being an intellectually dishonest slug that drove him to it.

[C0ckney]

to be honest i'm surprised the school district didn't fire him. imagine if a teacher started to publicly say "i believe negros are inferior and have been punished by god for sins committed by their ancestors. it says so in the bible" (there is actually a church in brasil which teaches more or less this - true story) and then claimed the school district was trampling on his religious freedom when they told him to stop publishing that kind of bigoted ****e.

[Ben Kenobi]

that's what the article says. disciplinary action, because of his bigoted views, and then he left, presumably so he could continue to spread his bigoted views, without facing disaplinary action, for a private school. it seems you need to read your own source more closely.

Really? I spoke to the man himself - back in 2005 and that's not what he said went down. Disciplined, Suspended and then fired. He eventually found another teaching job, but in 2005, he was driving a truck for a living. It was a terrible outcome for a good man.

[Ben Kenobi]

to be honest i'm surprised the school district didn't fire him. imagine if a teacher started to publicly say "i believe negros are inferior and have been punished by god for sins committed by their ancestors. it says so in the bible" (there is actually a church in brasil which teaches more or less this - true story) and then claimed the school district was trampling on his religious freedom when they told him to stop publishing that kind of bigoted ****e.

That was exactly what the court case was about - whether or not Kempling could remain a public school teacher while publicly writing about Christian teachings that homosexuality is sinful. Which is protected speech as freedom of religion is protected by the Canadian constitution.

You have to address what Kempling actually said. And again - Kempling did not teach that in class - he wrote a letter to the editor. That's what got this whole firestorm started. As a private citizen - he is entitled to write to the editor and that includes on topics of homosexuality and gay marriage.

I suggest reading up on the case. It's a travesty and the result is that the BCTF lost a fantastic teacher for political reasons only. Imagine if the BCTF fired a communist? Would that not start a ****storm?

[Ben Kenobi]

Its his sexual solidarity and social ostracization for being an intellectually dishonest slug that drove him to it.

Liberals brand arguments they dislike as 'intellectual dishonesty'.

[Ben Kenobi]

I call BS. Please stop conflating your personal experience and bizarre perceptions with the real world.

Right. Liberals tip crap AND they treat you like **** when you do something nice for them. Or are Ming and Rah conservatives today?

It was my experience that liberals invariably tipped crap. You made bank off the folks who understood what it was like to work for a living, not the folks (like MRT above), who believed you were there to serve them.

That was my experience all through university working at pizza delivery to pay for my school.

Political views are irrelevant to a restaurant meal or to pizza delivery.

No, they aren't. Liberals talk the talk, but do not walk the walk unless it's someone else's money.

But if you go looking for trouble (e.g., wearing a socially or politically divisive pin/slogan), trouble will find you.

Interesting. This thread, people got mad at Conservatives for refusing to tip a liberal. Now we see that liberals see that as perfectly ok way of doing business by shunning conservatives.

In restaurants, I'm a 20% tipper. Consistently, unless my server is noticeably inept.

But they NEVER get stiffed. My minimum is 10%. It's hard work and the salary is squat.

You might want to let Ming and rah in on that so they can buy a clue about "treating people with respect". They would benefit from your wisdom.

Basically, if you can't afford the tip, you should eat at a place where they ask, "Do you want fries with that?"

Pretty much.

[mrmitchell]

to be honest i'm surprised the school district didn't fire him. imagine if a teacher started to publicly say "i believe negros are inferior and have been punished by god for sins committed by their ancestors. it says so in the bible" (there is actually a church in brasil which teaches more or less this - true story) and then claimed the school district was trampling on his religious freedom when they told him to stop publishing that kind of bigoted ****e.

This was exactly what I was thinking. It's a real quandry which is probably why they didn't fire him. (Ben Kenobi, if they did, please cite that?)

[mrmitchell]

Also, the whole "liberals don't tip" thing makes you come across as an unhinged obsessive.