Anyone else (possibly) getting a mandatory vacation come Tuesday?

[PLATO]

If the Taliban had 45% of the congressional vote would you negotiate with them?

Yes, of course. That would be a huge minority reflective of a large number of Americans.

[PLATO]

So what are peoples bets on how long it will be before the GOP inevitable cave?

I'm going for a week.

Sounds about right. With 72% already polling against the Republicans, I can only imagine that it will get worse and the opposition Congressmen will start to get heat from their voters.

[PLATO]

I think the debt ceiling will not be increased.

That would be uncalculably bad. Even if Obamacare is worse than the most dire prediction, default on the debt would be worse.

[Krill]

That would be uncalculably bad. Even if Obamacare is worse than the most dire prediction, default on the debt would be worse.

Yeah, it would be. But it comes down to the representatives understanding of who gets blamed, as you've just said.

I may be out of touch, considering I'm not American, but from what I've read I don't think you'll get that much heat on the GOP representatives. I actually think some of the Democrat reps will consider caving...then Obama will finally show some spine and say "Look ma, no hands!" as he steps away from the controls until he gets what he wants. And no one will give in.

Out of interest, would the Health exchanges carry on functioning if the US defaulted?

[Krill]

Yes, of course. That would be a huge minority reflective of a large number of Americans.

So you would negotiate on what, precisely? Sharia law? Education for women? Abortion?

Ultimately, there are scenarios where two parties have such contradictory values that compromise is impossible, and generally that's stuff which is life or death (or perceived as more important than that ie religion and the afterlife ****). In this instance, There are multiple factions fighting over laws that are literally life or death for some of their supporters. It's a topic that some people just will not back down from, and frankly how much do the downtrodden have to lose?

[PLATO]

So you would negotiate on what, precisely? Sharia law? Education for women? Abortion?

Hard to say as the make up of the country would be completely different. It is the principle that is important, not the actors.

Ultimately, there are scenarios where two parties have such contradictory values that compromise is impossible, and generally that's stuff which is life or death (or perceived as more important than that ie religion and the afterlife ****). In this instance, There are multiple factions fighting over laws that are literally life or death for some of their supporters. It's a topic that some people just will not back down from, and frankly how much do the downtrodden have to lose?

It is possible that the positions are intractable, but not likely. As the pressure of the shutdown grows and the consequences of default begin to be understood, the various constituencies of the Representatives will begin to apply pressure. Already we are seeing some Republicans beginning to move. With public support apparently behind them (as seen through polling data), the Democrats seem much more united at this point. I suspect that the Republicans will hold on long enough to get some token handed to them and then all will be set back on course. Obamacare will survive.

[DinoDoc]

Obamacare will survive.

Until it collapses under its own bureaucratic weight.

[PLATO]

Until it collapses under its own bureaucratic weight.

Well...there is that.

I imagine that the next swing, when Republicans come back to power, that there will be major changes. Unfortunately, once the gov't gets involved, it is nearly impossible to get it uninvolved again.

[Captain ******* Kirk]

Sorry but bull****. This idea that both sides have to negotiate when one side want something is laughable. What exactly is it that the Republicans are 'negotiating' with? What are they giving up? Oh gosh, we'll only delay Obamacare for a year instead of completely destroying it, look how generous we are.

The House of Representatives in the United States has the sole power to originate revenue bills (based on the Constitution) and appropriation bills (based on Congressional tradition); the House is negotiating with the power of the purse that is rightfully theirs. It's really too bad that America doesn't have a sensible Westminster system that would've allowed the Republicans to repeal Obamacare once they took power in 2010; our obstructionist House of Lords and do-nothing king really need to have their power circumscribed.

[The Mad Monk]

If the Taliban had 45% of the congressional vote would you negotiate with them?

If the Taliban had 45% of the congressional vote I wouldn't have a choice, now would I?

[DinoDoc]

I imagine that the next swing, when Republicans come back to power, that there will be major changes. Unfortunately, once the gov't gets involved, it is nearly impossible to get it uninvolved again.

Dan Rostenkowski probably felt the same way.

[The Mad Monk]

[Ben Kenobi]

The House of Representatives in the United States has the sole power to originate revenue bills (based on the Constitution) and appropriation bills (based on Congressional tradition); the House is negotiating with the power of the purse that is rightfully theirs. It's really too bad that America doesn't have a sensible Westminster system that would've allowed the Republicans to repeal Obamacare once they took power in 2010; our obstructionist House of Lords and do-nothing king really need to have their power circumscribed.

Dammit. Too many awesome posts too few likes!

[Ben Kenobi]

I still don't understand the reasoning behind that case. The Tax Anti-Injunction Act didn't apply on the rationale that Congress specifically labeled consequences of the mandate as a "penalty" rather than a "tax," yet goes and declares the ACA individual mandate Constitutional by labeling it a tax themselves. Can a lawyer explain that to me?

Worst SCOTUS decision since Roe and Buck vs Bell. Abject disaster. I was incredulous seeing Roberts on the other side when I had expected Kennedy. That's like putting your guard on for the obvious backstab and then getting stabbed in the front.

[Sava]

Since the major regulatory bodies are shut down, one would expect private business to begin a historic hiring boom... since all those regulations are just holding down job creation.