Pope sends direct message to Ben

[Ben Kenobi]

You're arguing in his favour for the same reason you always argue this stuff, because he was a Catholic.

How does this change the legitimacy of James Francis Edward Stuart, as the king's son? It is in fact just the opposite. He was excluded under the Act of Settlement, barring catholics from the throne. Soon this will be repealed.

It's exactly the same reason you defend Mary I who was a bloodthirsty psychopath

Only 31 that we know the names of (not counting Foxe's book) were executed under Mary. That's it. Elizabeth killed more Catholics in just the Rising of the North, and Edward killed more in the prayer book rebellion. In terms of bloodthirstiness, she was the least among the Tudors.

Elizabeth, a far gentler woman who avoided using violence whenever she could help it.

Elizabeth killed 42 named Catholic nobles, more than Mary, fwiw.

You preach about morality right up until the point where it's inconvenient to you, and then it doesn't matter any more as long as the person in question happens to have been on your religious side. It's pretty pathetic.

My argument has never been, "Mary I was a ruler others should emulate". My argument has been that Elizabeth's reputation has been whitewashed. She did nothing different from Mary.

[Ben Kenobi]

even mean?

Last time I played bridge a 7 no trump contract means there is no trump ace. But I guess since I don't have a bridge degree, my knowledge about the game is insufficient. Have you ever even played bridge?

I've played Rook. I don't know if anyone else here has played that. In rook, 7 NT is a 7 of whatever suit that is not trump. They don't use a standard deck or standard suits -they have a special deck for Rook.

[C0ckney]

Only 31 that we know the names of (not counting Foxe's book) were executed under Mary. That's it. Elizabeth killed more Catholics in just the Rising of the North, and Edward killed more in the prayer book rebellion. In terms of bloodthirstiness, she was the least among the Tudors.

why excluding foxe's book of martyrs? is it not a proper source? unlike say, a book review on a catholic website.

mary i had around 280 protestants killed, for being protestants. that figure is accepted by everyone. most were burnt at the stake.

[rah]

If you don't know if anyone else here has played rook, you probably shouldn't be using it as an example.

[Ben Kenobi]

If you don't know if anyone else here has played rook, you probably shouldn't be using it as an example.

I thought the principle easy enough to follow - trump always wins over anything not trump.

[Ben Kenobi]

why excluding foxe's book of martyrs?

For the same reason I'm excluding the source with 300 Catholic martyrs under Elizabeth.

mary i had around 280 protestants killed, for being protestants. that figure is accepted by everyone. most were burnt at the stake

And most accept that Elizabeth had 300+ Catholics executed, and many, many more in the Pilgrimage of Grace and the Rising in the North.

I see no reason to accept Foxe's book and to reject Catholic martyrologies.

[C0ckney]

For the same reason I'm excluding the source with 300 Catholic martyrs under Elizabeth.

what?

And most accept that Elizabeth had 300+ Catholics executed, and many, many more in the Pilgrimage of Grace and the Rising in the North.

I see no reason to accept Foxe's book and to reject Catholic martyrologies.

catholic martyrologies don't give a figure of 300 for elizabeth's reign. please stop lying. many of those elizabeth executed were executed for taking up arms against her.

[Ben Kenobi]

catholic martyrologies don't give a figure of 300 for elizabeth's reign.

Yes, they do.

many of those elizabeth executed were executed for taking up arms against her.

Performing the mass and attending one was considered treason under the act of Supremacy.

[C0ckney]

Yes, they do.

no they don't. you might get to 300 if you include people who died in prison (16th century prisons were unsanitary, who knew?) , but you said: "executions". not the same thing.

Performing the mass and attending one was considered treason under the act of Supremacy.

so? this doesn't contradict anything i said.

[rah]

I thought the principle easy enough to follow - trump always wins over anything not trump.

Yes the principle of trump wins is, but that isn't what you said.

7 No trump loses to the trump ace everytime.

Bridge is a much more popular game, and to those that play bridge, 7 no trump means NO TRUMP.
SO I repeat, don't use a more obscure games in an example and expect people to understand what you're trying to say.

As always, no matter how wrong you are you keep twisting and twisting to try to show that you're really right. And no one ever buys it but you.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes the principle of trump wins is, but that isn't what you said.

Christ Rah, are you so ****ing dense that you can't ****ing parse the concept that trump beats no trump? Or are you just spooning your usual bull**** that nobody really gives a **** about? You do this every goddamn post.

[Ben Kenobi]

no they don't. you might get to 300 if you include people who died in prison (16th century prisons were unsanitary, who knew?) , but you said: "executions". not the same thing.

Right, because when Henry VIII is machinegunning his way through all the plantagenets who have any ****ing claim to his throne, and then later followed up by all the Catholics - one of whom took 10 axe chops as a 65 year old woman, we can be certain that they died of sepsis in prison and not a ****ing execution.

Or was he that much of a ***** that he had to kill the lady because she was a revolutionary who could overthrow him?

so? this doesn't contradict anything i said.

It means that Catholics were ****ing executed for their faith. Don't you get that? or are you just unable to perceive the concept that yes - Catholics go to mass? I can see how that might be difficult when you as an atheist don't ****ing understand why Christians would die before their death cult god on a cross. Yeah, it was becausee they were revolutionaries! That's the ticket.

65 year old women. Christ. At least the pope eventually beatified her only 3 centuries after which makes it all better

[Hauldren Collider]

Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2

[kentonio]

Right, because when Henry VIII is machinegunning his way through all the plantagenets who have any ****ing claim to his throne, and then later followed up by all the Catholics - one of whom took 10 axe chops as a 65 year old woman, we can be certain that they died of sepsis in prison and not a ****ing execution.

Or was he that much of a ***** that he had to kill the lady because she was a revolutionary who could overthrow him?

65 year old women. Christ. At least the pope eventually beatified her only 3 centuries after which makes it all better

Oh wow, you've suddenly found some human compassion for a poor woman who was basically hacked to death? Good, you should feel compassion for her. Now, how about you find some for the 300 odd people who were tied to a stake of wood, surrounded with more wood and then set fire to? You don't think they might just have suffered a bit more standing there feeling themselves being slowly cooked alive?

It means that Catholics were ****ing executed for their faith. Don't you get that? or are you just unable to perceive the concept that yes - Catholics go to mass? I can see how that might be difficult when you as an atheist don't ****ing understand why Christians would die before their death cult god on a cross. Yeah, it was becausee they were revolutionaries! That's the ticket.

I don't recall Jesus telling the early Christians to rise up in armed rebellion to try and overthrow and kill the Romans. Which part of the bible did that happen in again?

[C0ckney]

Right, because when Henry VIII is machinegunning his way through all the plantagenets who have any ****ing claim to his throne, and then later followed up by all the Catholics - one of whom took 10 axe chops as a 65 year old woman, we can be certain that they died of sepsis in prison and not a ****ing execution.

i've already demolished you over henry. i thought we were talking about elizabeth. i'm telling you that someone dying in prison is not the same as them being executed. do try to keep up.

It means that Catholics were ****ing executed for their faith.

yes some were killed for their faith, no one has ever disputed that of course. we're talking about the numbers killed. numbers which you have consistently tried to inflate, and been called out on.

Don't you get that? or are you just unable to perceive the concept that yes - Catholics go to mass? I can see how that might be difficult when you as an atheist don't ****ing understand why Christians would die before their death cult god on a cross. Yeah, it was becausee they were revolutionaries! That's the ticket.

65 year old women. Christ. At least the pope eventually beatified her only 3 centuries after which makes it all better

around that time, a lot of people died for their religion. all the various 'heretics', the patarini, the dulcinians, the waldensians, the lollards. the victims of the albigensian crusade, the hussite wars, the inquisition, the counter reformation, the wars of religion in france etc.