NRA announce that lead poisoning is an evil liberal myth

[kentonio]

No-one said they did get sick from being around chunks of lead you pair of ****ing morons! It beggars belief that either of you ever passed high school.

[kentonio]

Oh and Reg, there's a reason why they banned lead paint you know, and it's not just 'children eating it'. When a surface covered in lead paint gets knocked it apparently has a nasty habit of releasing lead dust into the air.

[Dinner]

http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/08/san-diego-zoo-targeted-by-nra-activists/

The sad and funny thing is now the NRA has listed the San Diego Zoo as one of the groups they want to "expose". Why? Because the zoo, which has been integral to saving the California Condor and which has run the breeding program for decades which successfully reintroduced the species back into the wild after the species went extinct in the wild, backs the ban on lead based ammunition based upon scientific evidence that the lead is poisoning not just condors (it's one of the leading causes of condor deaths) but also eagles, vultures, swans, and falcons. The National Park Service says that “lead poisoning is the biggest threat facing the successful recovery of the California condor.” while the loony tunes nutjobs at the NRA are raving about vast conspiracy theories and claiming this is secret attempt to ban all guns in America, it's sad, but that's the level of mental dysfunction the right wing has sunk to.

[snoopy369]

Further evidence that people and other animals do not die from simply being around lead: houses used to all be painted with lead paint not very long ago. It was hazardous because kids would eat the chips of paint coming off the walls. But there was no issue of huge portions of the population suffering severe lead poisoning despite constant exposure.

There is a vast trove of evidence that the lead in gasoline dramatically decreased the intelligence level of Americans during the period in which lead-based gasoline was most commonly used (1950s-1970s). Very low levels of lead in the blood still cause significant decreases in IQ. The average amount of lead in blood in the 1970s was sufficient to cause a decrease of about 10 IQ points on average. That's a massive drop. Correlative studies have also shown lead appears to have caused significant increases in violent crime and teen pregnancies, although those can never be more than correlative.

Lead has other problems beyond just intelligence levels, and likely the Condors are more concerned with the accumulation in their blood than their IQs, but it's certainly a very serious problem. This is one of those issues that frustrate me as a conservative; I don't mind if people argue "Who cares about the condor, the damage done by removing my lead bullets is less important than some bird too stupid to live anyway". That's a reasonable argument - species die out all the time, preserving one specific one at the cost of tens of millions of dollars per year might not be worth it depending on your valuation. But instead of having the balls to make that argument, the "conservative" argument instead is "science is dumb" and then a bunch of unscientific nonsense that makes no sense to even marginally educated people.

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Dinner]

But that's not going to bring the prices down, only slow the growth.

You're not very good at economic theory, are you? Because the idea that high prices attract new investment resulting in increased production and lower prices is about as basic and uncontroversial as it gets.

[The Mad Monk]

No-one said they did get sick from being around chunks of lead you pair of ****ing morons! It beggars belief that either of you ever passed high school.

Actually, you did, when you started ranting about the 3000 tons of lead chunks, in the form of ammunition.

[giblets]

You're not very good at economic theory, are you? Because the idea that high prices attract new investment resulting in increased production and lower prices is about as basic and uncontroversial as it gets.

The price will go down, but it should still be higher than it was originally before the price increased.

[Docfeelgood]

No-one said they did get sick from being around chunks of lead you pair of ****ing morons! It beggars belief that either of you ever passed high school.

Why do you insult people who disagree with you?

[Docfeelgood]

There is a vast trove of evidence that the lead in gasoline dramatically decreased the intelligence level of Americans during the period in which lead-based gasoline was most commonly used (1950s-1970s). Very low levels of lead in the blood still cause significant decreases in IQ. The average amount of lead in blood in the 1970s was sufficient to cause a decrease of about 10 IQ points on average. That's a massive drop. Correlative studies have also shown lead appears to have caused significant increases in violent crime and teen pregnancies, although those can never be more than correlative.

Lead has other problems beyond just intelligence levels, and likely the Condors are more concerned with the accumulation in their blood than their IQs, but it's certainly a very serious problem. This is one of those issues that frustrate me as a conservative; I don't mind if people argue "Who cares about the condor, the damage done by removing my lead bullets is less important than some bird too stupid to live anyway". That's a reasonable argument - species die out all the time, preserving one specific one at the cost of tens of millions of dollars per year might not be worth it depending on your valuation. But instead of having the balls to make that argument, the "conservative" argument instead is "science is dumb" and then a bunch of unscientific nonsense that makes no sense to even marginally educated people.

This is why we can't have nice things.

I remember when tooth paste came in a lead tube.

[Dinner]

Clearly you used a lot of the lead laced toothpaste.

[snoopy369]

Why do you insult people who disagree with you?

That's what we do around here, as far as I can tell.

[MrFun]

One way to eliminate something you don't like is to make it to expensive for people to do it.

I agree. Same with abortion clinics; regulate them to death with onerous, unnecessary new laws to deny women the right to make their own health care decisions.

Or, same with voting rights. Add enough new, onerous, unreasonable laws and use subtle forms of intimidation to deny people in minority groups their right to vote.

[N35t0r]

Further evidence that people and other animals do not die from simply being around lead: houses used to all be painted with lead paint not very long ago. It was hazardous because kids would eat the chips of paint coming off the walls. But there was no issue of huge portions of the population suffering severe lead poisoning despite constant exposure.

Would you paint your house with lead paint?

I'm guessing that, when the story about the lead-paint in chinese kids toys came out, you rushed to go and buy those for cheap before they got taken out of circulation, after all, lead is harmless...

Also, regular people did not eat food they previously rubbed against the wall, the only real hazard from lead paint was chips coming off the wall, kids licking the wall, and house fires.
Condors, OTOH, being carrion eaters, don't really shy away from eating a dead animal with a bullet lodged in it.

Besides, you're talking about a bird whose adult weight can reach 12 kg. That's less than the average 2 year old. The amount of lead that would lead to poisoning for one of them is significantly lower than the average human.

[kentonio]

Actually, you did, when you started ranting about the 3000 tons of lead chunks, in the form of ammunition.

Not in the sense that lead laying around was in some way going to poison the ground or whatever, simply in the sense that having large quantities of it thrown in tiny fragments out into the wilderness was inevitably going to lead to lots of it entering the animal food chain, which is exactly what happens.

[kentonio]

Why do you insult people who disagree with you?

Differing opinions are good. I usually only insult people who have no problem throwing insults themselves. There's a reason why I never insult MM for instance, despite us being pretty much diametrically opposed on nearly every issue.

Oh and racists, they can go **** themselves too.