NRA announce that lead poisoning is an evil liberal myth

[snoopy369]

Because fragments don't end up in the food chain when they get shot at a piece of paper in front of a dirt wall. So the only possible concern you could have about stuff being shot into dirt is it getting into the water supply.

Fun fact, "plumbing" is called plumbing because pipes used to be made out of lead, plumbum in latin, because lead is not corroded or dissolved by water.

Read the link I posted; AZ Fish+Wildlife would beg to differ on the first point.

On the second point, you're entirely incorrect. Lead from pipes *does* enter the water supply; this is something I know a lot about given I bought a house with likely lead piping from the mains (and perhaps lead mains). Typically the lead pipes get a layer of PbC03 coating them after 5-10 years which prevents lead from entering the water supply after *that*, but prior to that there is some in the water; and if you do anything to acidify the pipes you get lead sugar which dissolves happily into water (the romans poured wine in theirs, for example, trying to take advantage of this).

[N35t0r]

Somehow the world's electrical engineers have managed to avoid lead poisoning on a massive scale.

And fishermen. And the guys that balance your tires. So humans have safety measures to deal with risky situations. Even then, it has taken a long long time to evolve these (and they often have to be heavily enforced). I somehow suspect wild animals don't have these.

Right back at you, N35tor, ornithologist. There has never been an issue with Condor eating bullets. 100% of the lead poisoning came from shot. Bullet fragments are large and sharp. It would be like eating bits of a cut up can of beans.

Yeah, sorry. Claiming something doesn't make it so, Ben.

Ingestion of shotgun pellets and fragments of bullets in flesh from such carcasses is the route by which lead poisoning occurs.

I'm more willing to believe the guys who actually studies this than take your word for it.

And in any case, I'm pretty sure we're not just talking about bullets used in hunting here, but bullets used on firing ranges. Bullets that are shot into paper or steel and then go smack into the dirt. Condors aren't going to eat those.

Wow! Look at those goal posts moving!

THE ENTIRE PURPOSE of the california lead ammunition ban proposal is to make shooting sports uneconomical, not environmental reasons. That's just a lame excuse.

They should also not be called posts by this point. I'm also amazed that you're still here, what with being able to tell what lots of other people really mean.
Oh, and yes, everyone is out to get you.

I'd recommend you go and meet some animal conservation enthusiasts. You'll be amazed at what they are willing to do to avoid a species going extinct.

Yeah, usually hunting bullets are, except for varmint bullets which basically cause the animal to explode from the inside. Hunting bullets are hollow point and don't break up inside flesh that much.

Bull****. Go and look up statistics. In just under a minute I found a survey that read that 7% of wounded animals were not recovered. And that was a survey, so it's only taking into account visibly wounded animals.

Also, go and look up people that record recovered ammunition. Some of them weight the recovered bullet. It very usually weights significantly less than intact. So much for not fragmenting.

Here's a picture of a 6.5mm Swedish cartridge, a very popular hunting cartridge in Europe (not as common in North America) and what happens when it gets shot into stuff:

Oh look! Here's a black guy that voted Republican! Clearly all black guys vote republican!

To claim that bullets are entering the food chain in any quantity worth legislating over is ridiculous.

In your opinion. Some people might think that the health of several species, some of them threatened with extinction, is more important that some guy's sport becoming a bit more expensive.

Especially bullets fired on shooting ranges at dirt berms.

If you can find a better way to remove as many lead bullets from hunting, go ahead and propose it.

Unless they aren't eating the lead.

Yet they are dying of lead poisoning. The lead must be teleporting into them.

Sidenote, why does anyone give a **** about the california condor anyway? If there are only ~200 individuals left, there can't possibly be a significant effect on the ecosystem if it went extinct because there aren't enough of them to matter anyway.

Some of us are capable of acts of kindness that go beyond what could possibly benefit us in the long term.

And other people actually enjoy watching them. You know, just like some people enjoy hunting?

[Docfeelgood]

No it won't! Animals don't just eat whatever inorganic material is lying around, especially inorganic material buried several inches into the dirt (which is what happens when bullets hit dirt). Birds eat lead shot because they eat pebbles to grind up actual nutritional material, and lead shot is the right shape and size. There is way, way more poisonous stuff lying around everywhere than lead so if animals were actually that stupid they'd all be dead by now.




AHHH WHAT IS IT WITH YOU PEOPLE. NO I AM NOT ADVOCATING LEAD PAINT FOR YOUR HOUSES!



I didn't claim lead is harmless, I claimed that lead sitting in the ground is harmless.



THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAID



They will avoid eating a bullet. They won't avoid eating shot. Which is why you can't hunt with lead shot anymore.

Bullets are big heavy things usually with a copper jacket. Lead shot is small, BB-sized (literaly that is a standard shot size) pellets.

And for that matter hunters don't generally leave animals they've shot just lying around. It's more common with birds but if you shoot a deer, you're bringing it home, not leaving it there to get eaten by condors.



What does this have to do with them getting poisoned by lead in the ground? They don't go around digging up shooting range berms to eat the lead.

I understood you

[Docfeelgood]

Yaknow, I remember when lead was the container for toothpaste and some foods.

[Dinner]

You've said that twice and people used that to make you the butt of jokes twice. If you really don't remember then you've some issues.

[Docfeelgood]

You've said that twice and people used that to make you the butt of jokes twice. If you really don't remember then you've some issues.

Really? I don't' remember.
I do remember when toothpaste came in a lead container.

[Docfeelgood]

You've said that twice and people used that to make you the butt of jokes twice. If you really don't remember then you've some issues.

come on! laugh, don't be so serious

[Sava]

I remember when tooth paste came in a lead tube.

Case in point.

[Docfeelgood]

Varmint Grenade bullets. NO LEAD!

[The Mad Monk]

Fun fact, Lead in water pipes is like asbestos in buildings - both were phased out when people realised they were totally poisonous to human health!

Just read this from start to finish to realise why your entire argument in this whole thread is completely flawed

Sidenote, 'No safe threshold for lead exposure has been discovered—that is, there is no known amount of lead that is too small to cause the body harm'

Now imagine the effects of lead on a bird the fraction of the size of a human being...

Since the amount of environmental lead is a ratio and not an absolute, I'm really not sure what you're getting at.

[DaShi]

Since the amount of environmental lead is a ratio and not an absolute, I'm really not sure what you're getting at.

For those who can't click and link and read, the amount refers to the amount of lead in the body, not in the environment.

[Fake Boris]

Since there is only 1 Regexcellent, is there enough of him that it would matter if he went extinct?

[The Mad Monk]

Not in a cosmic sense, no.

[regexcellent]

Since there is only 1 Regexcellent, is there enough of him that it would matter if he went extinct?

Probably not, the world would go on if I died. My family and friends would be upset but obviously the government shouldn't be taking extraordinary measures to protect my welfare.

[regexcellent]

Fun fact, Lead in water pipes is like asbestos in buildings - both were phased out when people realised they were totally poisonous to human health!

Just read this from start to finish to realise why your entire argument in this whole thread is completely flawed

Sidenote, 'No safe threshold for lead exposure has been discovered—that is, there is no known amount of lead that is too small to cause the body harm'

Now imagine the effects of lead on a bird the fraction of the size of a human being...

I'm having trouble imagining a California Condor digging up bullets in the ground to eat them.

I checked, currently lead ammunition is banned for hunting purposes throughout its range.

Lead bullets in the ground won't hurt you.