Today's SCOTUS ruling - Affirmative Action

[Dinner]

It is so pathetic that you see college admissions as a legitimate way to "right" the wrong of slavery. Sorry your ancestors were enslaved and savaged..here, have an acceptance letter to a school you won't do well in! It's all better now, right? We'll even throw in some scholarship money! It's like your grandma was never even raped!

It's more like blacks are hugely disproportionately kept in poverty and a large part of the reason why is because they were systematically denied higher education especially to elite schools so to help correct this problem we want to help qualified black students get into higher education so that more blacks become qualified for the higher level jobs. It is hoped this will help to address the issue of disproportionate poverty outcomes.

[Wiglaf]

Yeah, well, it's been several decades since this grand experiment began. Blacks are still committing 55% of the murders despite making up 13% of the population. And not getting into Harvard is not an excuse to commit murder. Neither is being stupid or poor.

[snoopy369]

Woah, that's a classic Wigging out there if I've ever seen one...

[Wiglaf]

Some of us are mature and can confront complicated, uncomfortable issues without writing 6 paragraphs of dense politically correct bull****.

[snoopy369]

It is so pathetic that you see college admissions as a legitimate way to "right" the wrong of slavery. Sorry your ancestors were enslaved and savaged..here, have an acceptance letter to a school you won't do well in! It's all better now, right? We'll even throw in some scholarship money! It's like your grandma was never even raped!

Specifically in relation to this, the wrong of slavery is largely unrelated to Affirmative Action, as you should know. The wrong is the Jim Crow era discrimination that occurred *after* slavery (mostly from 1870-1964). The inability to vote, the inability to own property or marry or whatnot in a lot of cases, certainly the inability to get jobs; all of that was much worse post-slavery than pre.

Affirmative Action is also not, directly, to "right a wrong"; it is to create an equity _today_. The problem is that the inequity of the 1960s and before led to the inequity of today; the lack of minorities in hiring positions, the lack of money in many black neighborhoods, etc., the crime rate, are all highly related to the lack of opportunity for minorities in the first half of the century. In some areas, that systemic inequity is still extant, and needs significant steps to correct. One of the most significant steps is to ensure minorities have substantial access to colleges, so that in the next decade or two you start seeing more college graduates and then more hiring managers who are minorities.

[snoopy369]

Wiggy, if you ever run for office, let me know; I would really like to monitor the twitter feed for your campaign.

[Wiglaf]

How does not being able to vote or marry in any way contribute to consistently obtaining an extraordinarily substandard SAT or IQ score?

One of the most significant steps is to ensure minorities have substantial access to colleges

Should we also give arbitrary boosts to their college GPAs? Why not? After all, hiring managers are no longer fooled by a black guy with a bachelor's, because they're wise to affirmative action. Why shouldn't we also manipulate transcripts to help blacks?

[Elok]

Given the ridiculous incarceration and single-parenthood rates of black people in this country (and probably some other horrifying stuff I don't know about), I don't think AA is gonna accomplish a whole lot no matter how it's implemented. You've got a band-aid on a hemorrhage there.

[Dinner]

I don't know. We've seen the creation of a black middle class and even a black upper class of such an extent it would have been undreamable in the 1960's so I'd say improved access to education has had very real positive effects. That doesn't mean everything is roses and, yes, single parent households are a problem as they generally result in higher poverty rates. Now, part of that is cultural in the black community but I ask you how much of that part of black culture in America is the result of centuries of families being unwillingly broken up because one parent was sold "down river" thus creating a cycle of broken households? That's just part of a very complex equation and possibly not even the dominant part but it is undeniably a part and that part should be addressed and not ignored as it historically has been.

[Wiglaf]

Given the ridiculous incarceration and single-parenthood rates of black people in this country (and probably some other horrifying stuff I don't know about), I don't think AA is gonna accomplish a whole lot no matter how it's implemented. You've got a band-aid on a hemorrhage there.

I love how you mention "incarceration rates" instead of "crime rates." Can't bring yourself to admit blacks have to commit crimes to go to jail, huh? Where did you go to school, Columbia?

[Wiglaf]

I don't know. We've seen the creation of a black middle class and even a black upper class of such an extent it would have been undreamable in the 1960's so I'd say improved access to education has had very real positive effects.

I too like to attribute things to other things without any evidence at all

[Dinner]

Yeah, well, it's been several decades since this grand experiment began. Blacks are still committing 55% of the murders despite making up 13% of the population. And not getting into Harvard is not an excuse to commit murder. Neither is being stupid or poor.

Link to back up the 55% claim?

[Dinner]

I too like to attribute things to other things without any evidence at all

You're denying that actually getting a college education opens up opportunities for higher paying work? Really?

[Ben Kenobi]

The problem I have with that is that you are enforcing your faith on others.

How?

How does my practice of Catholicism affect anyone else?

I have no problem with you choosing not to use contraception.

But you *do*. You are not letting me choose not to use contraception. You are forcing me to pay for other people to use contraception. This is no different, morally, than me paying to use contraception myself. The makers of contraception don't care whether I buy it or Flake buys it. Money is fungible.

In essence, requiring me to buy contraception is no different than forcing me to use it because you are forcing me to pay for it upon penalty of law.

But you equate paying taxes to the government, who also pays for contraception in others

I equate Obamacare with forcing me to pay for contraception. Taxes, income taxes are quite another thing.

You are free to argue against it, but once it's a policy, live with it

As Dr. King said, "an unjust law is no law at all". I am not bound to respect a law that is wrong. I am bound to respect the consequences of defying that law, and I'm prepared to do exactly what Dr. King did. It doesn't matter whether it was passed or not - the law does not become just when it passes.

You are trying to force all Americans to live by your faith (by denying government coverage).

No. I am simply saying that if you wish to have contraception that you pay for it yourself.

You are saying that people should receive contraception free. That is your position is it not?

Further, this is not how the American political experiment works.

The first amendment - while it may not protect my rights, protects the rights of American citizens from intrusion by the government into their Faith. It protects Catholics from infringement of the free-exercise clause.

We separate our politics from the churches. That means not only "no prayer in schools"

I suggest you re-read the first amendment. I am perfectly able to pray to God with my students. .

more importantly policy is set by the government without explicit consideration of religion.

Again, forcing Catholics who are American citizens to pay for contraception is a violation of our first amendment rights per the free exercise clause.

but it is certainly legitimate to support those who do wish contraception

Through the use of our tax dollars and our labor? No, no, it is not. Americans are free to buy contraception. With their own money.

[Elok]

I love how you mention "incarceration rates" instead of "crime rates." Can't bring yourself to admit blacks have to commit crimes to go to jail, huh? Where did you go to school, Columbia?

Lagos. They taught me everything there is to know about moving gold out of a country. I just can't get a business partner, for some reason.