Today's SCOTUS ruling - Affirmative Action

[Docfeelgood]

Affirmative action is equality through reverse discrimination.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Don't expect any meat on a $10 Indian lunch buffet.

Depends where you live. There is a pretty good $10 Indian lunch buffet not too far from my house with goat curries, chicken vidaloo (at times), etc.

[snoopy369]

$10 indian buffet almost always includes goat curry and at least one chicken option

[PLATO]

only racists get mad about AA

It depends. Some people believe that minorities have achieved a level where they no longer need the help of race to get equal consideration and opportunity. That is not racism.

I believe that AA is still a necessary tool to provide opportunity to minorities that still suffer from the plight of having been born into impoverished conditions and attend underfunded schools in neighborhoods where underfunded policing allows high crime while their white competitors for a university position live in sprawling suburbs with large police forces going to brand new schools.

In addition, the priviledged white kid also benefits from getting an education that consists of diverse classmates.

So...while in many cases it is in fact racism that drives the fight against AA, in many others it is simply a lack of understanding and people thinking that they are promoting "equality" by giving everyone the same chance. The problem is that they are not being given the same chance from the beginning and AA helps to try and truly "equalize" things.

A poor solution, but better than nothing.

[MikeH]

It depends. Some people believe that minorities have achieved a level where they no longer need the help of race to get equal consideration and opportunity. That is not racism.

Suppose whether those people are racist depends whether they are saying that because they are genuinely ignorant or deliberately disingenuous.

[Sava]

A poor solution, but better than nothing.

I agree.

Affirmative action is equality through reverse discrimination.

No. Not really. So some entitled over-achieving brats have to go to their second choice for college... big deal.

To equate that with actual racial discrimination is ****ing retarded. They aren't being denied a job or a home because of the color of their skin. They aren't being shouted at on the street. They aren't being beat up or lynched.

So think about actual racism for a moment Doc. Think of how horrible that is.

Now compare it to some rich white kid being told they have to go to Brown instead of Harvard.

OH THE HUMANITY

[DinoDoc]

It would seem to me that paternalism and the belief in the inferiority of other races are the only real justifications for race based AA at this point. If your concern is the problems of overcoming the effects of poverty, why focus on race instead of class? Does Robert Johnson's daughter really need Affirmative Action?

[PLATO]

Suppose whether those people are racist depends whether they are saying that because they are genuinely ignorant or deliberately disingenuous.

Exactly.

[PLATO]

It would seem to me that paternalism and the belief in the inferiority of other races are the only real justifications for race based AA at this point. If your concern is the problems of overcoming the effects of poverty, why focus on race instead of class? Does Robert Johnson's daughter really need Affirmative Action?

It really is a matter of looking at why minority neighborhoods are notoriously underfunded. Statistically speaking, blacks in general are far more impoverished that whites. However, I do think there is merit in looking at "class" instead of "race" in some instances.

[PLATO]

I agree.



No. Not really. So some entitled over-achieving brats have to go to their second choice for college... big deal.

To equate that with actual racial discrimination is ****ing retarded. They aren't being denied a job or a home because of the color of their skin. They aren't being shouted at on the street. They aren't being beat up or lynched.

So think about actual racism for a moment Doc. Think of how horrible that is.

Now compare it to some rich white kid being told they have to go to Brown instead of Harvard.

OH THE HUMANITY

While there are certainly degrees to discrimination, it is ultimately bad in all forms. Once minorities are given an equal chance from the beginning, then there will be no need for AA. However appropriate AA might be, it IS reverse discrimination...just not to the degree of what you are talking about.

[Sava]

I agree looking at class is perhaps a better approach. But that's class warfare, right? So don't be disingenuous DD.

While there are certainly degrees to discrimination, it is ultimately bad in all forms. Once minorities are given an equal chance from the beginning, then there will be no need for AA. However appropriate AA might be, it IS reverse discrimination...just not to the degree of what you are talking about.

Most everything can be construed as being ultimately bad. It's a mistake to think in terms of black and white (no pun intended). There are inherent racial and cultural biases in the metrics used to evaluate education and intelligence. Using a little overt discrimination to balance the scales a bit isn't "ultimately bad". It's necessary because it's very difficult, if not impossible, to formulate truly objective measures and standards for education and intelligence.

It's very similar to the gun debate.

"Oh, every possible solution kind of sucks or is complicated... so we shouldn't have any solution whatsoever even though the original problem is much much worse. And besides, the problem doesn't affect me that much, so screw the people more affected by it."

[DinoDoc]

I agree looking at class is perhaps a better approach. But that's class warfare, right? So don't be disingenuous DD.

I'm simply pointing out a better approach to achieving the aims desired by PLATO rather than actively supporting a policy that depends on a belief in the general inferiority of non-whites to justify its existence.

[DaShi]

You're begging the question, again DD.

[PLATO]

I'm simply pointing out a better approach to achieving the aims desired by PLATO rather than actively supporting a policy that depends on a belief in the general inferiority of non-whites to justify its existence.

I don't believe for a second that AA is based on the "general inferiority of non-whites" but rather a recognition of the general inferiority of opportunity provided to non whites. Big difference. Generally, and for reasons of nothing short of racism, this tends to correlate well with class. Not always, granted...but generally.

[giblets]

I agree.



No. Not really. So some entitled over-achieving brats have to go to their second choice for college... big deal.

To equate that with actual racial discrimination is ****ing retarded. They aren't being denied a job or a home because of the color of their skin. They aren't being shouted at on the street. They aren't being beat up or lynched.

So think about actual racism for a moment Doc. Think of how horrible that is.

Now compare it to some rich white kid being told they have to go to Brown instead of Harvard.

OH THE HUMANITY

That's great but why give a middle class black kid an upper hand over a poor white kid? Taking socioeconomic status into account is a much better way to help disadvantaged people get into college than race-based affirmative action.