WH on NSA snooping: You can totally trust us.

[Sava]

Perfectly put.

oh quit your *****ing you crumpet eating turd burglar

Making jokes about that stuff is about all we can do. We're not going to go riot in the streets over this.

Your stupid government wants to censor the internet by default so that everyone needs to "opt in" in order to see boobies.

So fix your own ****ing country first.

**** face

[kentonio]

oh quit your *****ing you crumpet eating turd burglar

Making jokes about that stuff is about all we can do. We're not going to go riot in the streets over this.

Your stupid government wants to censor the internet by default so that everyone needs to "opt in" in order to see boobies.

So fix your own ****ing country first.

**** face

Sure you can riot in the streets. The last big LA one was awesome exciting TV viewing. Just put some NWA on and go burn something, pussytwat.

[PLATO]

We're not going to go riot in the streets over this.

I wonder what it would take to get Americans in the streets...

[Elok]

Ken, what exactly do you expect us to do? Obama's party is supposed to be less indebted to the M-I complex than the GOP. He got elected on a "no more evil shadow government launching an endless succession of insane wars" platform. He's still pulling this crap. The only people talking about reining in on this are people like Ron Paul, who would wreck the economy instead. Also, those people have no hope of winning, because of our two-party system. Under that system, our two options are this, or something worse--and changing the system requires concerted action by the very people who need to be changed. Oh, and those of us who hate this are still a minority; much of the U.S. is still sufficiently scared of the spooky tent-squatting terrorists to allow this business to go on until the crack of doom.

I guess if the GOP radically reinvented itself as a party that disliked the actually-dangerous parts of government, we might have something to work with. Until then...

[Sava]

I wonder what it would take to get Americans in the streets...

Turn the internet off.

pussytwat.

THATS MY LINE YOU ASSBAG

[kentonio]

Ken, what exactly do you expect us to do?

Well I suppose really it needs a grassroots organization of millions to stand up and object to the injustices being done by the rich and powerful. Oh wait..

[Elok]

If you're referring to the OWS squatters, they didn't accomplish anything for a very good reason. If they couldn't even get serious and decide what they wanted, why the hell should anyone else listen to them? "Hi, there, we're the future of American democracy! Look at our puppet shows and impromptu street theater! Pardon me, we've got to go try and achieve perfect consensus in small groups via jazz-hands. It hasn't worked yet, but then we've only been at it for a month. Give us another year and we should be ready to run the whole country that way too."

****, at least the Tea Party had some kind of overall plan.

[Elok]

No revolution has ever been achieved entirely by artists who just got kicked out of their apartments for owing six months' rent. Or people indistinguishable from same.

EDIT: Rioting in the streets would actually be an upgrade to the Occupy route, insofar as people don't completely ignore rioters.

[Elok]

Going back to the main topic, what troubles me most about all this--ATM--is not the potential for creeping tyranny so much as the growth of an entrenched bureaucracy of spooks whose primary interest is its own perpetuation. I don't think everyone in the intel community is acting in bad faith as such, but if we ever stop freaking out about unseen enemies, that means millions of dollars of funding cut off for hundreds of thousands of people who make their living digging through data, and that's got to be influencing their judgment somewhere along the line. It's ridiculous how many companies in the D.C. area make most of their money as contractors for one government intel agency or another; they've been growing rapidly ever since 9/11. And as long as the process is totally opaque, we have no hope of knowing to what extent all these people are still acting in the public interest.

Especially given the hideous monotony of our military interventions. AFAICT, nobody wanted Obama to intervene in Syria. There's no feasible way to turn the situation there to our advantage, or even to make it much better for the Syrians. Neither side appears competent to rule. The only people who benefit from this nonsense (aside from the rebels, who if anything are our enemies) are the guys who make the guns and the bombs. Hence I have cynically concluded that the needs or wishes of the American people as a whole are no longer a significant factor in decision making. Cynically--but I don't think I'm being paranoid. Nothing like a government money-teat that even a recession can't cut off.

[DaShi]

Going back to the main topic, what troubles me most about all this--ATM--is not the potential for creeping tyranny so much as the growth of an entrenched bureaucracy of spooks whose primary interest is its own perpetuation. I don't think everyone in the intel community is acting in bad faith as such, but if we ever stop freaking out about unseen enemies, that means millions of dollars of funding cut off for hundreds of thousands of people who make their living digging through data, and that's got to be influencing their judgment somewhere along the line. It's ridiculous how many companies in the D.C. area make most of their money as contractors for one government intel agency or another; they've been growing rapidly ever since 9/11. And as long as the process is totally opaque, we have no hope of knowing to what extent all these people are still acting in the public interest.

Especially given the hideous monotony of our military interventions. AFAICT, nobody wanted Obama to intervene in Syria. There's no feasible way to turn the situation there to our advantage, or even to make it much better for the Syrians. Neither side appears competent to rule. The only people who benefit from this nonsense (aside from the rebels, who if anything are our enemies) are the guys who make the guns and the bombs. Hence I have cynically concluded that the needs or wishes of the American people as a whole are no longer a significant factor in decision making. Cynically--but I don't think I'm being paranoid. Nothing like a government money-teat that even a recession can't cut off.

What you are describing is hardly unique to the intelligence industry. Neither is it necessarily a bad thing, as they are growing to meet increasing demand. Most of the data is analyzed on demand. There simply aren't enough people to analyze it all and most of it is useless crap. Additionally, plenty of people wanted Obama to intervene in Syria. Not sure where you are getting your information. Given your lack of actual evidence and that you don't seem to fully understand how these industries work, I wonder how you can honestly propose such an extreme idea.

[Elok]

OTOH, I just saw ads for "Grown-ups 2" and a Kia SUV they decided to call the "Cadenza." Sometimes people in positions of considerable responsibility just make abysmally ****ing stupid decisions and nobody ever finds out why. And I need to remember that. I did totally misread the Iraq war by assuming that at least one person involved was making a rational decision...

[DaShi]

Yes, it's easy from the couch.

[DaShi]

Elok, interestingly, reminds me a lot of Snowden.

[Elok]

Erm, DaShi, if you're responding to me, you should probably know that you're on my ignore list. Have been for a year or so. I view your posts every now and then, but this is not one of those times. No offense--to the extent that's possible when I say stuff like this--but you tend to piss me off, and I value my peace of mind.

[MrFun]

****, at least the Tea Party had some kind of overall plan.

Shall we put an emphasis on the past tense word, "had?"