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  • Originally posted by kentonio View Post
    On many things sure
    On most things. For instance, the NSA records the time and duration of communications, but it stops at unwarranted disclosure of the content. Countries like China don't give **** about that.

    Being 5 minutes late does not forfeit you the right to scold someone who's an hour late.
    DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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    • The wikileaks dude is a rapist attention whore and the dumb kid Bradley Manning who sent him the stuff did it cause he was pissed off at his CoC after he was put on restriction for throwing a temper tantrum and flipping a table at his CO. He was not a whistleblower.

      He ought to hang but sadly that won't happen.

      e: oh I saw ecuador and assumed you were talking about that ******* hiding out in their British embassy, never mind carry on.

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      • Originally posted by regexcellent View Post
        He ought to hang but sadly that won't happen.
        IIRC, that dude revealed diplomatically embarrassing details (like e-mails where our guys called foreign dignitaries losers or something), but nothing actually dangerous to anyone. Why does he need to die for that?
        1011 1100
        Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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        • Originally posted by Elok View Post
          IIRC, that dude revealed diplomatically embarrassing details (like e-mails where our guys called foreign dignitaries losers or something), but nothing actually dangerous to anyone. Why does he need to die for that?
          Wrong, he revealed the identities of a number of our secret agents and informants.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

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          • Huh. Guess the diplomatic embarrassment was just more memorable. As I don't believe in the DP in general, I still don't think he should die for that, but I guess that's sort of understandable.
            1011 1100
            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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            • Originally posted by Colon™ View Post
              On most things. For instance, the NSA records the time and duration of communications, but it stops at unwarranted disclosure of the content. Countries like China don't give **** about that.
              How do you know? How can you be so sure about the limits on their surveillance when you didn't know the surveillance was even happening until this guy revealed it (at the cost of his own future) and the government then felt they had to come out and cover themselves? It has come out recently that the NSA have been tapping dangers to the US like Barack Obama back when he was running for senate. Who exactly is it that oversees their power? Would it be the same people they are able to spy on? You don't think there's anyway that could possibly go wrong?

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              • Originally posted by kentonio View Post
                How do you know?
                Because that'd be against the constitution. The operations Snowden revealed are all according to US law.
                DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                • I think if the warrant was legal, then what the NSA did was legal. I may be wrong here but I think under current US jurisprudence Congress could just pass a law saying "phone records are not private" and then the NSA could examine them at will.

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                  • Originally posted by regexcellent View Post
                    I think if the warrant was legal, then what the NSA did was legal. I may be wrong here but I think under current US jurisprudence Congress could just pass a law saying "phone records are not private" and then the NSA could examine them at will.
                    The NSA has that covered thanks to the UK:
                    By May last year 300 analysts from GCHQ, and 250 from the NSA, had been assigned to sift through the flood of data.

                    The Americans were given guidelines for its use, but were told in legal briefings by GCHQ lawyers: “We have a light oversight regime compared with the US”.

                    When it came to judging the necessity and proportionality of what they were allowed to look for, would-be American users were told it was “your call”.
                    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                    • Originally posted by regexcellent View Post
                      I think if the warrant was legal, then what the NSA did was legal. I may be wrong here but I think under current US jurisprudence Congress could just pass a law saying "phone records are not private" and then the NSA could examine them at will.
                      The fact that the NSA can collect metadata at will and that it all could be perfectly constitutional is what should worry Americans the most.
                      DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                      • what amuses me is the people most likely to get het up about surveillance are those least likely to ever be of interest
                        Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                        Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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                        • I'm not specifically concerned that I'll be spied on, become an Enemy of the State, etc.; I'm concerned that, without rigorous oversight, the NSA will swiftly discover it can do whatever it wants, with all sorts of crazy bull**** ensuing and not even the "bad guys" noticing. With the kind of broad, lazy warrants they're supposedly getting, I'd give you better-than-even odds that right now some government employee and/or contractor is nosing through private e-mails for personal gain, or just because he's bored and he found the dirty e-mails some dude is sending to his secretary. Another ten years like this and we could see (or, rather, not see) middle-manager types facilitating industrial espionage for a wad of cash. Quiet deals worked out with foreign governments which, once you work through all the details, turn out to be technically high treason. Conscription of foreign crime syndicates as an "intelligence asset," where they monitor the borders in exchange for us looking the other way while they move truckloads of dope or guns or nine-year-old Mexican hookers. Use your imagination; with "need-to-know" compartmentalization, a fiercely enforced snitches-get-stitches policy and no obligation to tell us even the very broadest outlines of what they're doing, all sorts of corruption, incompetence and malfeasance are possible.
                          1011 1100
                          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                          • Perfectly put. If anyone doubts this they should look back at some of the activities of the CIA in the middle of the last century.

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                            • I was thinking more of Iran-Contra--was the CIA involved in that? I was busy reading board books at the time, so I don't know all the wacky details.

                              EDIT: Actually, I don't believe you're all that old either. But you seem to have this encyclopedic knowledge of evil things Americans have done.
                              Last edited by Elok; June 26, 2013, 07:31.
                              1011 1100
                              Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                              • Originally posted by Elok View Post
                                I was thinking more of Iran-Contra--was the CIA involved in that? I was busy reading board books at the time, so I don't know all the wacky details.

                                EDIT: Actually, I don't believe you're all that old either. But you seem to have this encyclopedic knowledge of evil things Americans have done.
                                It's not just Americans, we British did more than our fair share of evil things too, as did the French and many more. The reason your post rang so true, is because it is the inevitable result of military or intelligence agencies being given sweeping powers without true accountability. The line between moral and immoral is already very blurry for those groups due to the nature of their work, and without strict oversight it's very easy for them to end up performing or facilitating horrific acts in the name of the 'greater good' or just because unpleasant people find themselves with the opportunity to get away with it.

                                It kind of amazes me that people still don't seem to get this, even with documented proof of things like MKUltra, Tuskegee, Mockingbird and the like. It's as if we have some weird filter in our heads that convinces us that bad things can never happen again in our time, even though there are still people living today who have lived through two world wars and numerous genocides. We simply don't learn.

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