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WH on NSA snooping: You can totally trust us.

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  • WH on NSA snooping: You can totally trust us.

    White House defends collecting phone records

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House on Thursday defended the National Security Agency's need to collect telephone records of U.S. citizens, calling such information "a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats."

    While defending the practice, a senior Obama administration official did not confirm a newspaper report that the NSA has been collecting the telephone records of millions of U.S. customers of Verizon under a top secret court order.

    The order was granted by the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court on April 25 and is good until July 19, Britain's Guardian newspaper reported Wednesday. The order requires Verizon, one of the nation's largest telecommunications companies, on an "ongoing, daily basis" to give the NSA information on all telephone calls in its systems, both within the U.S. and between the U.S. and other countries.

    The newspaper said the document, a copy of which it had obtained, shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of U.S. citizens were being collected indiscriminately and in bulk, regardless of whether they were suspected of any wrongdoing.

    The Associated Press could not authenticate the order because documents from the court are classified.

    The administration official spoke on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to publicly discuss classified matters.

    Verizon spokesman Ed McFadden said Wednesday the company had no comment. The NSA had no immediate comment.

    Verizon Communications Inc. listed 121 million customers in its first-quarter earnings report this April — 98.9 million wireless customers, 11.7 million residential phone lines and about 10 million commercial lines. The court order didn't specify which type of phone customers' records were being tracked.

    Under the terms of the order, the phone numbers of both parties on a call are handed over, as are location data, call duration, unique identifiers, and the time and duration of all calls. The contents of the conversation itself are not covered, The Guardian said.

    The administration official said, "On its face, the order reprinted in the article does not allow the government to listen in on anyone's telephone calls."

    The broad, unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is unusual. FISA court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets. NSA warrantless wiretapping during the George W. Bush administration after the 9/11 attacks was very controversial.

    The FISA court order, signed by Judge Roger Vinson, compelled Verizon to provide the NSA with electronic copies of "all call detail records or telephony metadata created by Verizon for communications between the United States and abroad" or "wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls," The Guardian said.

    The law on which the order explicitly relies is the "business records" provision of the USA Patriot Act.
    http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-de...105535514.html

    Why did they have to issue such a wide ranging request for data? Because #### you that's why!
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

  • #2
    Seems more like a fourth amendment issue than the other recent one, doesn't it?
    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

    Comment


    • #3
      I was waiting for this.

      Yup. The government is evil when a democrat is in the WH.

      Seriously. Where the **** were you from 2001-2008?

      Just another lame troll.

      I'd at least respect you if you had some principles... even if I disagree with them.
      To us, it is the BEAST.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sava View Post
        I was waiting for this.

        Yup. The government is evil when a democrat is in the WH..
        The broad, unlimited nature of the records being handed over to the NSA is unusual. FISA court orders typically direct the production of records pertaining to a specific named target suspected of being an agent of a terrorist group or foreign state, or a finite set of individually named targets.
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

        Comment


        • #5
          Shouldn't you be pissed at the court?
          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            The problem is that the "Court" is just a made-up government body. This isn't a normal court where we know what's happening there and there are normal legal justifications, this is the "foreign intelligence court" whose job is to ... do things? And everything they do is top secret, and not subject to meaningful review.
            <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
            I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sava View Post
              I was waiting for this.

              Yup. The government is evil when a democrat is in the WH.

              Seriously. Where the **** were you from 2001-2008?

              Just another lame troll.

              I'd at least respect you if you had some principles... even if I disagree with them.
              For me at least, this is every bit the fault of that 2001-2008 government. I'm mostly irritated because I believed Obama when he said he'd end some of this stuff. Nope... At least Bush/Cheney were honest about their desire to set up a totalitarian regime.
              <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
              I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

              Comment


              • #8
                This started in 2006, and is legally rationalized by the PATRIOT Act. If you ever thought Obama would actually change anything, you're a ****ing ******.

                EDIT: Sorry, that was an X-Post that came off as unreasonably harsh.
                John Brown did nothing wrong.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It was worth a shot...
                  <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                  I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Felch View Post
                    This started in 2006
                    Indeed.

                    Interesting. In 2006, Imran created a thread on this very topic.



                    original story link



                    DD's response?


                    Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                    Why is OK if I can get such info easily but suddenly frightening if the government gets it?

                    Your phone records are for sale
                    So DD... why is it so frightening if the government gets your info?

                    PLEASE TELL US
                    To us, it is the BEAST.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Felch View Post
                      This started in 2006, and is legally rationalized by the PATRIOT Act. If you ever thought Obama would actually change anything, you're a ****ing ******..
                      The Patriot Act requires that the the record being turned over belong to individuals under some sort of suspicion in specific investigations:
                      The order is based on Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which allows law enforcement to obtain a wide variety of “business records,” including calling records. EFF has long criticized Section 215, which sets a threshold for obtaining records much lower than the “probable cause” standard required to get a search warrant.

                      But Cohn argues that the kind of dragnet surveillance suggested by the Verizon order exceeds even the authority granted by the Patriot Act. “Section 215 is written as if they’re going after individual people based on individual investigations,” she says. In contrast, the order leaked to the Guardian affects “millions and millions of innocent people. There’s no way all of our calling records are relevant to a terrorism investigation.”

                      “I don’t think Congress thought it was authorizing dragnet surveillance” when it passed the Patriot Act, Cohn says. “I don’t think Americans think that’s OK. I would be shocked if the majority of congressmen thought it’s okay.”
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sava View Post
                        So DD... why is it so frightening if the government gets your info?
                        It's a massive overstep of the law?
                        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                          belong to individuals under some sort of suspicion in specific investigations
                          code for "muslims"
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                            It's a massive overstep of the law?
                            Only if Obama does it, eh?

                            partisan troll
                            To us, it is the BEAST.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Are the kids still saying "pwnd"?

                              Big time example.
                              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                              Comment

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