llinois becomes the fourth and most populous U.S. state to issue driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

[Aeson]

They perform valuable services for me at low cost.

You realize how cheaply they work for is because of the legal system you claim you dislike, right?

[Ben Kenobi]

Sloww isn't really bothered by the illegality of their immigration. He's really just upset that are ethnic minorities in the United States and that they are being treated like human beings.

Oddly enough only the purported 'non-racists' have claimed that there is a link between illegal immigration and a person's ethnicity. Sloww made no such distinction and didn't single out a particular country of origin.

[Ben Kenobi]

I love illegal immigrants. They perform valuable services for me at low cost.

And HC apparently loves slavery if it cuts down on his labor costs.

[Ben Kenobi]

First of all it is a misdemeanor and this is a pretty complicated matter as they'll just end up driving without a license.

So it's ok to break this law if you happen to come from a country that *isn't* America?

Personally, I'm still for it as a matter of public safety on the roads.

As opposed to deporting those found to be here illegally and breaking other American laws? I don't see why illegal immigrants should be immune to the laws which bind Americans.

The solution is to make the fines so HUGE these companies go bust and shareholders get wiped out while the execs and members of the board go to prison. Do that and everyone other employer will say "Damn, they're finally serious. Fire all those illegals we're employing" but until then the $120 fine is about 1 day's worth of savings compared to hiring an actual American so that means they net make money deliberately hiring illegals and ignoring the law. Republicans, ever in bed with big business, won't allow that to ever happen though.

Apparently Oerdin has no experience with a state that actually enforces immigration. Of course, he's from California so this opinion is understandable. There are plenty of laws already on the books.

[DinoDoc]

Oh no! Law abiding people ...

By definition this isn't true. In addition to illegal entry, identity theft is by far the most common crime an illegal commits.

However, the law's opponents have pointed to hundreds of fraudulent cases in New Mexico, Washington and Utah after those states began giving illegal immigrants permission to drive. Illinois will not require applicants to be fingerprinted, for fear that would discourage immigrants from applying.

...

An Associated Press investigation last year found a striking pattern in New Mexico, suggesting immigrants tried to game the system to obtain a license. In one instance, 48 foreign-born individuals claimed to live at a smoke shop in Albuquerque to fulfill a residency condition.

Authorities also busted a fraud ring last year that forged documents for illegal immigrants to use after driving from as far as Illinois and North Carolina to obtain a New Mexico license. Republican Gov. Susana Martinez has vowed for years to repeal the decade-old measure, but the Legislature has rejected such efforts.

Washington's requirements attracted national attention when Jose Antonio Vargas, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, revealed his illegal immigration status in an essay for the New York Times Magazine in 2011. Vargas chronicled how he obtained his Washington license. State authorities conducted an investigation that revealed Vargas did not reside at the address he stated in his application and canceled his license.

Utah's Republican-controlled Legislature amended the state's law in 2011 to require illegal immigrants to be fingerprinted, and mandates that the state notify U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement if an applicant's fingerprint check yields a felony on record. If the applicant has a misdemeanor warrant outstanding, the state must notify the agency that is seeking the person's arrest.

That kind of information-sharing between state and immigration authorities worries Illinois' immigrant-rights advocates, such as Tsao, who pushed for the legislation without a fingerprinting requirement. They say fingerprinting could deter potential licensees from applying for fear of being identified and deported.

If they were as law abiding as you suggest, why would a fingerprinting requirement be such a hot button issue?

[dannubis]

You realize how cheaply they work for is because of the legal system you claim you dislike, right?

No, of course not.

[DinoDoc]

Answer my question. Why are illegal immigrants illegal? Why should they be illegal?

Sovereign states have a right to control their borders.

Why do they remain illegal?

No one has come up with a satisfactory law that solves the problem. Quite frankly, Reagan killed amnesty for any future illegal population in the US. Now people want the source of the problem fixed (no operational control of US borders) before an amnesty is agreed to. Otherwise, this issue will simply creep up again in a decade or 2.

[Ming]

From Today's WSJ

By LAURA MECKLER

WASHINGTON—Millions of illegal immigrants would be given a path to citizenship under provisions of an immigration overhaul fashioned by a bipartisan group of senators, an opening shot in what promises to be a fight in Congress this year.

The legislative framework, to be released Monday, also would add federal agents and equipment to strengthen the borders and tighten work rules to ensure employers hire legally.

The unveiling comes before President Barack Obama plans to set out his own, similar principles in a speech Tuesday in Las Vegas. Mr. Obama repeatedly has said revamping the immigration system is one of his top priorities, while Republicans—smarting from the overwhelming Hispanic support of Mr. Obama in November's election—also have identified the issue as of major importance.

Still, the Senate proposal could face stiff opposition in the Republican-controlled House. Many Republicans oppose any path to legal status for illegal immigrants, viewing it as a reward for lawbreaking. Other Republicans have signaled they are comfortable with a legal status short of citizenship, but immigration advocates view that as an unacceptable second-class status.

Under the Senate framework, most people in the country illegally now could qualify for legal status and work permits, provided they meet certain standards including a background check and paying back taxes. They eventually could qualify for citizenship, but most would have to wait until certain border security improvements were met and a new system put in place for tracking whether people who enter the country legally on temporary visas leave on time.

With powerful liberal and conservative senators on board, the plan has the potential to attract senators of both parties. The framework describes the path toward citizenship for the 11 million people in the U.S. illegally as "tough but fair."

The agreement provides a variety of other provisions. Among them: alleviating the backlog of people waiting to immigrate legally; awarding green cards to those who earn doctorates from U.S. universities in science, technology, engineering or math; stiff fines and possible criminal penalties for employers that fail to verify workers' legal status; and creation of a program to fill low-skilled jobs that employers cannot get Americans to take.

"I'm impressed with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle over their desire to meet in the middle. We can't pass it without both Democrats and Republicans," Sen. Charles Schumer (D., N.Y.), a member of the group and chairman of the Senate Judiciary immigration subcommittee, told reporters Sunday.

Tricky issues have yet to be resolved, including how to assess whether the border-security benchmarks have been met, how to alleviate the backlog of people waiting for legal visas and how many people would be admitted under the new temporary-worker program.

The provisions don't address some smaller and potentially contentious aspects proposed for an overhaul, such as whether gay and lesbian Americans would have the right to sponsor their noncitizen spouses or partners for citizenship. Also unclear is whether immigrants with temporary legal status, but not citizenship, could quality for health-insurance subsidies under the 2010 health overhaul law.

"It's definitely a breakthrough to get a bipartisan group around a set of principles that would deal with every element of our broken immigration system," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.), a member of the group, said Friday. But he cautioned that there are difficult negotiations ahead: "There's a big difference between a set of principles and a detailed piece of legislation."

The bipartisan group of senators also includes Democrats Dick Durbin of Illinois and Robert Menendez of New Jersey, as well as Republicans John McCain of Arizona and Marco Rubio of Florida. They have met five times since the November election, alternating between the offices of Sens. Schumer and McCain.

The group hopes to have a bill by March that could move through the Senate by August. That would allow House consideration and negotiations between the two chambers during the fall. It wasn't clear how detailed President Obama would be when he lays out his own ideas in his Tuesday speech.

In recent years, with the U.S. economy weak, illegal immigration has slowed to a trickle. But many in Congress, particularly Republicans, worry that after legislation is passed, there will be a fresh wave of illegal crossings as the economy rebounds.

To combat that, the framework proposes increased technology, infrastructure and personnel, including more unmanned aerial vehicles, to apprehend unauthorized entrants. It calls for stronger prohibitions against racial profiling and more training of border patrol agents.

Most of the citizenship provisions would have to await improvements on the border. Meanwhile, people in the U.S. illegally would be required to register with the government, pass a background check, pay a fine and any back taxes, and then would be able to gain probationary legal status. Those with criminal records or who pose a threat to the U.S. would be subject to deportation.

Those brought to the U.S. as children or agricultural workers would face a quicker path to citizenship. But most others wouldn't be able to apply until it was determined that the new border measures and visa-check system were in place.

It wasn't clear how it would be determined that those provisions had been met. A Rubio aide said Mr. Rubio would like to see "operational control of the border," a standard some advocates fear would be both hard to define and never be met. A Schumer aide said the provisions should be measured by empirical measures, such as whether the promised number of new agents were in place.

Once the enforcement measures are complete, people with probationary status could earn permanent legal residence, which can lead to citizenship, if they pay taxes, learn English and meet other requirements. They wouldn't be able to earn a green card until all those waiting on the day the legislation is passed get theirs.

That meets a GOP demand that people who came to the U.S. illegally don't earn special treatment. But to address Democratic concerns that the line is prohibitively long, the framework calls for reducing those backlogs.

The outline also provides for businesses to hire new immigrants for low-skill jobs if they can show they were unsuccessful in recruiting Americans. Those who do well eventually would be able to earn green cards.

Left unresolved is how many workers would be allowed in each year. The framework says only that the number would be higher when the economy is creating jobs and lower when it isn't.

Businesses generally want more workers let in to deepen the pool of potential workers, while some labor unions want to limit entries for fear of depressing wages and opportunities for American workers. Officials with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce have been meeting with leaders of the AFL-CIO and the Service Employees International Union to work out a common position.

"The biggest concern has always been that when workers are brought in, it lowers wages for everybody," said Eliseo Medina, secretary-treasurer of the Service Employees International Union.

Randy Johnson, lead negotiator for the Chamber of Commerce, said Friday that the existing number of visas needs to go up. "If an employer goes through a tight process and can't find an American worker, they ought to have access to a temporary worker program that works," he said.

[DinoDoc]

Randy Johnson

Parents can be so cruel.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So it's ok to break this law if you happen to come from a country that *isn't* America?

"There are just laws and there are unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that an unjust law is no law at all"
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Of course he's just a dirty Baptist . But he does quote a Catholic saint .

[giblets]

Q. F. M. F. T.

I love illegal immigrants. They perform valuable services for me at low cost. Those I have interacted with have highly valued hard work, family, and honesty, all things which I also value very highly. Their only crime is to seek a new life in the land of opportunity.

I greatly admire them. They start with nothing, they endure serious hardship such as racism from *******s like Sloww, a legal system that seeks to eject them from their jobs and their homes, and they do their utmost to work their way up within the system. They are the people today who are truly living the American dream, yet many here seek to prevent them from doing that. It's funny and sad how illegal immigrants could have a better appreciation for some of our founding principles than many natural-born Americans.

Just look at all the valuable services Jewish immigrants performed for the Palestinians

[PLATO]

Perhaps the solution is to change current immigration laws. If the country needs the labor force, then we should tailor the laws to let the labor force in legally. Once we have immigration laws that make sense, then we should really crack down those who enter the country illegally. A country does have the right to protect its boarders. The Republican opposition to this strangely goes against Republican idealogy of cheap labor...simply because most immigrants vote Democratic. Then again...many illegals are making below minimum wage...maybe Republicans just want the status quo to continue to feed large corporations with illegally cheap labor. Democratic opposition to controlling the boarders is easy to see since they do vote majority democratic. However, the crime rate among illegals is higher than the general population due to a lack of screening of who is coming in the country and why. This is a classic example of where both sides could compromise by gaining and losing equally. Something Washington has lost sight of.....

[loinburger]

Oddly enough only the purported 'non-racists' have claimed that there is a link between illegal immigration and a person's ethnicity. Sloww made no such distinction and didn't single out a particular country of origin.

"The very next job that I see that for Manager that stipulates "Must speak Spanish", I'm suing...big time. It's illegal to hire wetbacks. - SlowwHand"

Sloww hates everybody whose first language is Spanish, regardless of their country of origin and regardless of whether they're illegal immigrants or not - the closest approximation to this form of hate is "racism against Hispanics."

[PLATO]

Quoted from Wikipedia:

Wetback is a derogatory term used in the United States, for a non-American foreigner, commonly a Mexican citizen, especially one who is an illegal immigrant in the U.S]

It seems that the term "wetback" is only racist if they are illegally in this country.........

[loinburger]

The term "wetback" is racist when it is applied without qualification to all Spanish-speakers.