School Shooting

[Felch]

And old school 7.62 Kalashnikovs are far. far more reliable under sustained primitive conditions in the field. They definitely have their uses.

Yeah it'll shoot come hell or high water, but it's ugly, heavy, and Russian. It's not like some nutcase with a shed full of guns is ever going to use them under sustained primitive conditions. He'd probably die of pneumonia from sleeping in mud ditches before his rifle ever jammed.

[MichaeltheGreat]

There aren't MPs standing around pulling security all the time; they're basically the police for the base and they spend a lot of time ticketing speeders and stuff on post. I think it was actually the local PD that responded. Also, unlike normal cops, MPs don't carry off duty.

Military bases, ironically, are essentially gun free zones.

I think due to the multiple casualty situation, local PD were follow-on responders to help secure the scene, direct traffic, etc. The first responders were members of the contracted base police. They're civilian employees of a government contractor specifically engaged to provide routine uniformed police services on base. The vast majority of MPs at Hood (there's a ton of them) are combat MPs, which are a totally different animal - they're deployable as a Corps level support unit for area security and maneuver and mobility support ops in a combat zone.

The reason for a civilian police contractor is that the total number of military personnel in each service is authorized by Congress, and the total in each MOS are set and approved through Army G1 (DCSPER) and SecArmy. "Excess" MPs assigned to routine base police patrol duties (Hood is huge) takes aways from other MP functions, or else would impact other MOS. Also, the base security force is non-deployable (you need base security even when assigned units are deployed, so it's simpler in practice to contract it out, at least for large installations. That also gives base command and procurement more flexibility in dealing with performance issues, number of personnel needed, etc.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Yeah it'll shoot come hell or high water, but it's ugly, heavy, and Russian. It's not like some nutcase with a shed full of guns is ever going to use them under sustained primitive conditions. He'd probably die of pneumonia from sleeping in mud ditches before his rifle ever jammed.

You know a softer breed of nutcases than I do.

[regexcellent]

Modern AR-15 pattern rifles are more reliable than Kalashnikovs. If you want an AK type action go for a Galil.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Modern AR-15 pattern rifles are more reliable than Kalashnikovs. If you want an AK type action go for a Galil.

Under ideal conditions, yes, or properly cleaned and maintained, yes. They have been since the A1 variants. Under conditions of poor weather, continuously deployed, lack of time, training, inclination or materials for proper cleaning, not even close. That's why it's the weapon of choice of every 3rd world peasant boonie humper. Do a Rambo and go to ground out in the boonies like that nutjob Rudolph, and you want a 7.62 Kalashnikov. Not the modern 5.45, and not the Chinese knockoff ****, but a real live Soviet, Czech, Polish or E. German one.

[MRT144]

Well now we seem to be moving goal posts away from your original claim. Define legitimate purpose then.

Every day usage that contributes to economic well being, health, entertainment, applicable education. But yeah, gun's sole purpose is to shoot things, whether those are people or disks. a pencil can do more than just stab. I don't understand why you're being a cretin on purpose.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Every day usage that contributes to economic well being, health, entertainment, applicable education. But yeah, gun's sole purpose is to shoot things, whether those are people or disks. a pencil can do more than just stab. I don't understand why you're being a cretin on purpose.

Because it's uncomfortable to deal with reality. Yep, guns are made for killing. You can use one for a hammer or flyswatter, but those are ancillary uses.

[DinoDoc]

I don't understand why you're being a cretin on purpose.

We've gone from people should feel like **** for owning things that can kill people to guns have no legitimate purpose as defined by you. I'm simply attempting to follow the train of thought.

[lightblue]

I can see keeping hunting rifles and shotguns. However I do feel that handguns have one purpose - killing people. You wouldn't go deer hunting with a pistol. If you want to use it for target shooting, keep it locked at the range. Are there any numbers on the amount of people hurt/killed each year by accidents involving handguns in the US? Is the chance to accidentally shoot yourself greater than the chance of being shot by a home invader? Would a home invader kill you if you weren't brandishing a gun?

[Alexander's Horse]

As a father I was way too upset about this to follow the news closely and I won't demean those poor kids by climbing into a gun control debate

But I thought Obama gave a good speech, he is a Dad too... Just pray for or think of the families is the best thing at this time.

[kentonio]

Why? What does that achieve? You think it's demeaning to want to fix something rather than just feel sad that it happened?

[dannubis]

Ken, do you have children ?

I can assure you when I read about the shooting, the first thing that went through my mind was a feeling of unbelievable pain at the thought of loosing my daughter. So yes I felt bad for the families involved

[Kidlicious]

If it were not for the absolute army of camo-jacketed good-ole-boys who swarm the woods around here every fall, the Eastern Shore would be a very dangerous place to drive. Also crop yields would plummet and we'd be infested with disease. You could have the government hire sharpshooters to cull the deer, I suppose, but it seems silly to spend money on it when there are just scads of people willing to pay for the privilege. Other parts of the country have similar problems with deer, or (far worse) feral pigs, or other ridiculously-fecund pests. That's one legitimate use for firearms right there.

Our problem, as I see it, is that we take an absolutist stand on the matter. I'm inclined to favor gun ownership as a privilege, closely regulated at a local level based on local needs. Not that it matters, as nobody asked me, but still...

I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[ricketyclik]

I have children, four of them, including one two days old. The first thing that went through my head was "Thank God we live in a country that isn't awash with guns".

It may be wearing my heart on my sleeve, but let me share a story with you.

When my father was 12 growing up on a small farm his older brother had a friend to stay over for the weekend. My uncle and his friend went out rabbit shooting, and when they returned they went into the room shared by my uncle and father and laid the gun (a lovely old .22 bolt action rifle, bought originally by my great grandfather I believe) on one of the beds. While they were talking my father picked up the gun, aimed it at my uncle's friend and pulled the trigger. The bullet passed through his heart and he died in a couple of minutes.

There was an inquest and my father was exonerated. He and his brother were sent away to relatives for a couple of weeks holiday and returned, and within the family it was as if nothing had happened. They weren't much for talking things through in those days. These days there'd be a team of counsellors to help him process what had happened.

My father went on to become a country GP, and saved many, many lives through his career. However, he was (and still is) a severe alcoholic with several other substance abuse problems that only a GP or other health professional could have, attempted suicide three times leaving him with fairly serious physical handicaps and has started and left several families. He was de-registered for suspicious prescribing in the end.

Then in about 1974 his eldest sister, in a moment of despair, took the same rifle out to the milking shed and shot herself through the head. She was in her mid twenties. Her much older husband died of a heart attack a few years later, and an acquaintance of his effectively stole my cousins to get her hooks into their late father's wealth and while my family was pursuing her for custody through the courts she kept my cousins in the back shed, took them out of school and had them sell fake charity raffle tickets and finally beat one of them to death.

From my early teens in the 80's I was entrusted with the same gun to go off through the paddocks rabbit shooting. I didn't know the history of the gun then. I had good fun stealing up to rabbits, shooting them through the head, collecting and tanning their skins for rugs and vests, and became quite adept at bunny au vin and bunny vindaloo. My youngest aunt was pretty keen on that stuff too. On the odd occasion a kangaroo or sheep was severely sick or injured we used the gun to put them out of their misery.

When my much younger half brother was in his teens he had gone off the rails and was burgling local houses and vandalising them, and got the gun and was shooting random things around the property. At that time the new gun controls had just come in, and my father took the gun into the police station and handed it in. He didn't have to, it had a permit, but he wanted it gone. Some in my family are annoyed at him for disposing of what was effectively a family heirloom. It was, as I say, a lovely old rifle, lovingly cared for.

So there you have it. One gun. A lot of fun. A useful tool. But oh, so much misery.

There are thousands of gun deaths in the US every year. What are the back (and subsequent) stories of those?

[kentonio]

Ken, do you have children ?

I can assure you when I read about the shooting, the first thing that went through my mind was a feeling of unbelievable pain at the thought of loosing my daughter. So yes I felt bad for the families involved

Not yet, but a lot of children in my family. I wasn't trying to say that people shouldn't feel indescribable sadness at what happened, because that's just the natural response for anyone with human emotions. It does however make me very angry when people describe talking about gun control as something cheap and tacky, and seem to suggest that just sitting feeling sad is somehow more useful than actually trying to do something about it. It's been said numerous times now, but this is the 20th mass shooting in just 5 years since Virginia Tech. It's time something was actually bloody done about it.

This wasn't an act of god, it was the act of a person who had mental issues he didn't get proper help for and access to weapons no reasonable person needs. If people need to pray, then pray, but then get off your knees and do something about it for goodness sake.