School Shooting

[MichaeltheGreat]

Do they deserve greater respect than the victims of the Newtown Massacre or Aurora Shooting?

Non-sequitur. There are a few blatant nut cases (a la Manson) that could be pretty easily identified, but that's a small minority. Once you start pre-emptively locking people up, you toss the Constitution down the ****ter and substitute the Gulag. I always knew you were really an undercover commie.

[DinoDoc]

I always knew you were really an undercover commie.

I'm simply using the bloody shirt of this incident everyone else is to point them into the direction of a rights abridging measure that might actually have an effect on the frequency of the black swan event currently capturing their attention. After all the linked studies would seem to indicate more mental-health services and more relaxed involuntary-commitment standards have a greater effect on the murder rate than banning certain types of scary weapons.

[Hauldren Collider]

Well especially with the people in congress who think homosexuals are mentally ill.

This is actually a perfect example of a group of people that have been persecuted in the past by insanity laws.

[regexcellent]

The problem with the assault weapons ban (well, the first problem of many) was that it banned guns with certain aesthetic features but not actually different function. Those aesthetic features make them a little bit easier to shoot but not really more deadly.

Well especially with the people in congress who think homosexuals are mentally ill.

QFT. Personally I think putting law enforcement in schools is the correct answer to this. Compared to the overall operating budget of the school, it wouldn't be expensive.

[Hauldren Collider]

No, that's ridiculous, that would pull cops from places where people are actually in danger.

[MichaeltheGreat]

One aspect of the gun control debate in our country that is never spoken aloud is this:

NO ONE needs a gun for "self-defense."

If a person says they need a gun for self-defense, they are either A) a complete fool who is also a gigantic *****, a quintessential American specimen that is growing its share of population, or B) a ****ing liar, who only says they want it for self-defense but they really want it to make their dick hard at the thought of shooting another human being.

I have nothing but contempt for people who say they own a firearm for self-defense. Buy it for hunting, buy it because they look ****ing cool, whatever. But self-defense? Get the **** out of here. Owning a gun is one of the surest ways to increase your chance of violent death, not decrease it; moreover, violent crime has been on a steady decline for the past several years. Americans are dumb, and easily scared.


Another fact about gun control that no one has the balls to say out loud: Newtown was an unspeakable tragedy. But in the grand scheme of gun violence in this country, it was a fart in a stiff wind. If you want to stop massacres like Newtown, the surest way to accomplish that is to radically rebuild not gun control, but the entire mental health system of the country. Don't expect any overall improvement in gun violence, however. To do that, you'd need not only to radically rebuild gun control, but also radically change the very culture of the entire country. Which is never, ever, ever going to ****ing happen, which is why gun control is, while generally more benign than most government actions, every bit as useless as most everything the government does.

/rant


EDIT: I see DD got in a post re: mental illness while I was typing this. Good on him, he gets the point.

I've used one twice for self-defense. Once when my daughter was about a year old, I heard noise downstairs and found someone had hopped our back fence (opened up on a trail, then woods and a lake) and was crouched down trying to use a crowbar to quietly force the french doors from our dining room to the back yard. These were doors that had the tab locks that went down to the floor as well as the regular lock, which he'd already forced. This was in an area where typical police response times were 10-15 minutes plus. I went back upstairs, quiet and quick, then back down, and the guy was still intent on doing his thing with minimal noise. I tapped on the glass so he'd look up, hit the switch on the flashlight, and the guy saw the muzzle of an AR-15 (M4A1 pattern) a foot from his head. He went running out of the back yard so fast he just about flattenend himself on the fence and landed in a heap on the other side, then limped off as fast as he could.

Second time, I was at a stoplight in a bad area of town (LA) in broad daylight, on the way to a work site, and a guy decided he was going to help himself and get in my truck because he thought the door was unlocked (door lock tab was loose), then when he saw it wasn't unlocked, he reached down towards his jacket pocket. I pulled a 9 mill out (yeah, I know, ladies gun, but it penetrates heads just fine, thank you) and he backed his ass away then ran.

*Maybe* the two idiots in question would have been equally deterred by other means. Maybe they wouldn't have and I'd have to do more damage with less than lethal means. In neither case did I fire a shot, pursue the targets, or fail to have my weapons properly secured at all times.

So feel free to take your absolutism and hold up a silhouette target for me.

[MichaeltheGreat]

I'm simply using the bloody shirt of this incident everyone else is to point them into the direction of a rights abridging measure that might actually have an effect on the frequency of the black swan event currently capturing their attention. After all the linked studies would seem to indicate more mental-health services and more relaxed involuntary-commitment standards have a greater effect on the murder rate than banning certain types of scary weapons.

So how many "majorly depressed" or "bipolar" people who would never actually commit a crime to you pre-emptively deprive of liberty and for how long, in the off chance that you bag an actual dangerous nutcase? Then let's expand that to our current crop of repeatedly bell-rung TBI vets who manifest significant behavioral changes without underlying diagnosed personality disorders. Maybe we lock them away too, just in case?

Hell no.

[MichaeltheGreat]

No, that's ridiculous, that would pull cops from places where people are actually in danger.

A lot of large urban school districts have their own specialty police forces - typically with more training relevant to the school environment and dealing with kids as perps, victims or witnesses.

[regexcellent]

Yeah, you'd just hire more officers. Put it in the school budget or something. I guarantee you parents will be willing to have a small hike in property taxes "FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!"

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I think we all know that the end solution will be to arm all teachers with firearms. That will continue until the first time a teacher goes on a spree killing. Then they will arm the kids too.

Lessons will drop traditional lecture settings, and instead take place in a Mexican stand-off.

[Hauldren Collider]

At least it would finally get kids to pay close attention

[Felch]

The non-shocking thing is that Catholics don't understand what James actually means to Protestants and the relationship of deeds to faith.

Why would we fill our heads with your nonsense when we have plenty of our own nonsense to ponder?

[Felch]

Personally I think putting law enforcement in schools is the correct answer to this. Compared to the overall operating budget of the school, it wouldn't be expensive.

In terms of man hours per life saved, is this the best way to deploy police? I have no idea, but I'm sure CompStat data could tell us.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Admittance of the lack of intellectual curiousity is a good first step.

[Felch]

If you want to tell me what you think of James, feel free, I'll pay attention.