Trouble in paradise - relationship advice, please

[Pekka]

MikeH, lots of good points. I have to think about them for a while. I will answer.

Obviously it takes two to tango. I just don't know what to do, or why she is angry so often other than being tired and maybe depressed. I have to go home now. Be back tomorrow.

[Ben Kenobi]

Spreadsheet Ben, it all goes in a spreadsheet.

They had laptops in the 50s?

Pekka, how much are you out with the reciepts that you do have on you? Between what she should be bringing home and what you've actually got?

finances is my strong point and I can take over it

Do that if that's the case. Finances aren't mine.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

She needs something besides the role of MOM. That is a role whether thrust upon her or otherwise is a hindrance to her feeling as if she can be what she wants to be or do what she wants to do. Your relationship distance is not so much that she doesn't acknowledge or even feel you want to be there to help her out but that she unfortunately has to suck it up and be there and be the parent regardless. A feeling of being trapped and resigned to that fate. Hence an inevitable source of resentment.

Ideally she needs to have something that is hers. A hobby activity or otherwise thing that allows her a sense of identity and through that increased self esteem . You can share and be part of it, but ultimately it has to be a her thing. Once that is established it makes sense to have a bit of pairs time (ideally sans kids as they hold some subconscious baggage). Walks together that kind of thing that allows some intimacy etc.

Ohh and for the reocrd that "her thing" has to be her idea not a "I think you should keep track of the finances" thing. Thats your idea of what needs to be done. She may absolutely hate the concept of it and resent the additional responsibility imposed upon her.

Start the conversation with before we had kids what did you love to do?

Or I could be completely off base.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Put the kids with their grandparents for a weekend.

Go to a hotel.

Ride her into the next dimension of consciousness.

[Jon Miller]

I think that you and MikeH have a pretty clear view, and that you are handling things right (my wife does too).

Yes, it is hard, and puts a bigger load on you. I am sorry. Sometimes it is necessary, as you know.

I think the idea of encouraging her to have her own hobby is a good (long term) response. However, you don't feel like you have long term. Which also is a stress on you (and her).

Laz's idea is also good, I think, but maybe 'for a week' and start with just relaxing together?

I will pray for you.

JM

[Hauldren Collider]

Wait, when did you get married, JM? (Congratulations, btw!)

[Pekka]

No we haven't gotten married. We're supposed to get married next summer though. At this rate, I'm not sure if it's going to happen.

I'm having the rest of the week off from work due to national holiday so I can build the house for few days now. So, I asked if she wanted to sleep longer tomorrow, or if I could sleep longer tomorrow since the kids get up 6 AM. She said well, maybe she should get sleep tomorrow. I said OK. So I get the next day, right? (I wake up 5:30 AM every morning for work, so I get up earliest every day, so once a week I get to sleep longer). Well, she had a point of me going to work to build the house so she would have to get up anyway. So then I realized, are you trying to suggest I get up 5:30 AM every morning, including Saturday and Sunday, so I can work all day long every single day until this project is finished, which will be at least a year?

She got upset, somehow implying that I was saying taking care of kids is easy. Which really was not my case, I said I can't work every single day, 12 hours a day, for a year. I need rest, I need at least one sleep morning in one week and that day, be it Sunday, I'll go work a bit later on the house. I think this is really ****ing absurd. I mean seriously. She fully expects me to work EVERY DAY, 12 hours, pay for all of it + our stuff, AND be the first one out of bed and never get the sleep day???? What the heck???

And then a long rant about how I'm just like all the other men, thinking that being a mom is not a job and that it's just fun and play. She started arguing with herself, putting words to my mouth while I was just listening. Then, she just got angrier and angrier, reaching climax when I just stopped her and said well, this isn't going to happen. I will not work every day and if that means the house project will take more than 12 months, then so be it. That's just the way it's going to be.

So then she just said good night and "stay up all night and watch movies and do what you want like you always do".

I think I'm living in some sort of insanity dimension. I'm not making this up. How can someone think that it's OK to think your partner should work every day, pay for it all and be happy about it, no contact, no closeness, just do it, pay for it, don't complain. If this is what she really thinks, then this relationship is over. What I need to find out is if she really thinks this way or not. I think she can't think this way.

This makes me question my choices. Maybe I should consider stopping the house project altogether. I won't kill myself building something they will lose the same year my time is up. Who am I kidding really? It'll just make things worse.

However things are going to unfold, this can't continue. I'm really tired of all the verbal abuse I've taken for quite some time now. I have no way to channel it, since I haven't talked about it to anyone (in real life).

Why did she get upset and started a long rant, arguing there as if I was taking part in it, as an answer and rationale as to why I should work every day? It seems like it's me who is supposed to get angry about an assumption like that.

I'm trying to see something else than someone who is really ungrateful. We're supposed to be a team and support each other, not be comparing who has it worst or is it fair if x or y. Especially when fair seems to be really subjective.

[Jon Miller]

Both of you take some vacation days?

A couple of extra days for the house to be late shouldn't be so harmful.

Maybe talk to someone (preferably someone you both like and trust), don't make it about complaints, just about life?

JM

[Jon Miller]

I married my wife on the 9th of November in Brussels.

JM

[Kontiki]

What's the childcare situation?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Pekka,

You need to understand what she is feeling is not necessarily rational. She likely is feeling resentful and trapped (as per my previous post). On the other hand she feels guilty about this at some level and in particular doesn't want to be hating on the kids but feels resentful none the less. This in turn transfers to why can't Hubby give me an opportunity to be an adult for a change. He gets to go to work at least have meaningful interactions with other adults and not have to watch Dora the Explorer all day, OMG! My mind is turning to mush.

On the one hand she understands she is being irrational, and yet that makes the frustration all the more intense because her feelings are what they are and she feels guilty because of it. A vicious cycle. She needs something to claim to save her identity. Trust me. I was in the same situation, laid off, a Mr. Mom while my wife was working watching two kids. I realized in short order for my own sanity I needed to get back into the work force ASAP.

[SlowwHand]

If she screams at you, or whatever, tell her you love her. Don't forget to tell her she looks nice. As Ogie pointed out, she's not just a mother. She may need to know that you know it.

[dannubis]

Though goings man. Sad to hear this.

The only thing I can say if you want to save your relationship is to keep talking. Maybe time for a new chapter in your lives. Something radically new you can both fight for ?

[rah]

No one said it would be easy. It takes great effort. Effort worthy of the super citizen. Don't give up easy like a lot of current wimps.
Remind her why you chose to have kids with her in the first place. And listen to Slowey. Remind her that she's not just a mother.
While it never the best idea to stay together just because of the kids, they do benefit if you do.

[Alexander's Horse]

Give it time Pekka, the main thing is to not force matters, time heals all wounds. You have a lifetime to work on it, the bottomline is to commit to stick together, even if it is just you at first.

I think words are your worst enemy, actions speak louder, little acts of kindness and consideration, or giving her the space she needs and respecting that, spending time with the children, recalling happy times, looking at the family photos together, or just putting them round the house, those little reminders of shared happiness mean a lot. There are many things Mrs Horse and I never discuss, and never will. I have often felt like an insignificant speck compared to Mrs Horse's depths, a mountain climber on the giant volcano of her emotions. I often lose my footing and tumble down to the base. I just pick myself up, dust myself off and start climbing again...

Preparing for Christmas can be a great way to pull the family together, avoid the stressful or divisive christmas events, if you can, put your relationship first, it should always come before the children's needs. Common enterprise and projects can lead to surprisingly good places in relationships, if the goals are shared. I mean simple things like little home improvements done together like painting or hanging curtains, cleaning her car or filling it with gas. An afternoon of gardening can be wonderful therapy, the children enjoy it too - growing things, pets. They all remind of what you have together and lead to laughter and warmth. Do you have common hobbies and interests? Those are a great way to reconnect. Avoid subjects that divide you when the underlying relationship is fragile.

This is all easy to say but hard to do, I know because I have been there, as have most couples. The thing is when you love someone its easy to get hurt by them and you aren't going to love them every day. But the feelings you share for each other will always be there, they come back. People put far too much emphasis on sex and physical closeness. They get far too anxious when things are quiet on that front. Its quite normal for women with young children to go through a period of aversion. Her drives will return naturally if you give it time. Let her initiate physical contact.

I just left Mrs Horse at home and it was like we never had a fight in the 25 years - there is a great line from an old song that I like - things too painful to remember we simply choose to forget. Hope that helps.