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Trouble in paradise - relationship advice, please

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  • Trouble in paradise - relationship advice, please

    Things with missus aren't going well. I think having had 2 kids in a row created distance between us and she is not ready to get back into an adult relationship yet. She's busy and tired, having to have to be with the kids, but I get back from work 5 PM and spend all the weekends together and help as much as possible (do dishes, wash laundry etc.)

    This isn't so much a problem for me. We have grown distant, yes... I don't even have to say we haven't had sexy time for months and months, maybe it's 2 years, who knows anymore. I've tried to hug her, give little kisses and nothing more than that along the way, just to keep close. I always initiate it and she always ends it as well. Talking about it (closeness, not sex - that's far far beyond our scope) is also difficult it seems. I've asked and said that I'd like - and in fact need - some human touch, to be close... at least more than now. In the future. She always says she is worried about the future (in general), thinking about kids, was a long day... it's always the same story. I've probed for few years now (not every day or week, but few times a month) if there is something else on her mind that is troubling, if I could do something, if I could be more supportive or do something or anything to ease those worries. But supposedly there is nothing. "It'll be better when I get some more sleep" and that kind of stuff.

    It worries me. I've told her this worries me because I love her and I want to have a relationship that is not this distant. And that I'll wait as long as it takes.

    She has low self esteem. It seems that combined with tiredness and perhaps depression (or at least an awful lot of moodiness), it amplifies it to a point where there is no discussion and when I start, I have to tip-toe around important topics so she won't become angry. Yeah. She is angry a lot. She says it's because of the kids, but I don't know anymore. She is usually angry at least once a day when I'm present, and she shows it, like in a dramatic fashion. Point is delivered. Like huffing and puffing angry, almost physical. It doesn't suit me very well, because I'm very calm myself. We've talked about this as well... I mean well, "talked".

    These issues are important to me because as many of you know, my prognosis isn't very good. Having two kids, I worry about their future. That's the only thing I worry about. So, having a relationship with their mother is a priority to me in all that I do. Sometimes I just think she doesn't want to be with me. Like she's waiting for me to die. We never talk about it. I'd like to, and I've brought it up several times that since I have a serious illness, it's important to talk about it because I have no one else to talk to. She has suggested I should see a psychologist instead, excluding the need for us to talk. For me, it is really important, it is a serious stress factor and if no discussion or closeness is going to happen,I don't know what to do. I in fact think it is dangerous for me, I think I should have low level stress and human touch, and that might give me some extra time - who knows? This is extremely difficult and ... I keep thinking, I deserve more. If I have, say, few more years left or less, I should have the opportunity to talk to my companion and have human touch. I should not have to face anger every single day. Every single day! And have that passive "I'm tired" sort of response.

    In the last 4 years, I have answered her anger 3 times. I remember all of them. I raised my voice and argued for a minute or two and then it was over. What really makes me angry and has built negative feelings inside me is that she always uses the kids in these arguments. These very few ones I actually then engage. She probably doesn't mean it at all, but the first things she uses when I start to argue as well is that I'm a bad father, I never spend any time with the kids (I spend ALL my time with my family that is not work, I work normal hours). It sickens me to no end. For me it does not represent what she really thinks. It represents how the arguing will escalate in a flaming second, like asymmetric warfare. I am extremely serious when I say that should I ever say I want her to fix her **** and grow up, she will threaten to take the kids and go live with her mother. That's the go-to move. That's probably something most couples have to deal with but I'm scared of the level of how fast it will escalate to that: from the point where I answer back raising my voice. Then again, it is totally useless, because when I raise my voice, it's not like she lowers hers.

    These are few examples. I realize I'm probably a boring person to be around with. I have several flaws which probably are all true. Now - aside from no communication or closeness, we're threading in dangerous waters due to the fact that I've noticed we can't keep up with what we have promised to do and have set clear guidelines for. We're building a house, so we set up an account to save money for it. Naturally since I make more money, I put more money in the account. In fact I put all my money there, that is not used to pay my few bills. She is supposed to do the same. Except she isn't. In the last 3 months that we have been saving actively, she put few hundred euros in and took out about the same amount. Not only does that screw up tracking (this is the account the bank provides us with funds and we use to pay bills only related to the house itself), she is effectively eating our savings. Now this is totally ****ed up.

    This is a topic that will always lead to anger, so I always try to approach it carefully. Asking if she needs help, since I make more money, I'm cool with paying more, I just need to know if we can go on with our plan or if we need to modify it. If she has problems paying some bills, we can modify our plans, it's OK. Then she goes on a story about all the bills she gets, and how next month is better due to many of those bills being the last ones. Unfortunately this isn't the case. I've calculated few times, that she actually gets more to spend than I do (well that's easy since I get around zero), so how is she always out of money? I have no idea. She has even less money than before, now that she has absolutely no living costs what so ever. What bills she is accumulating, I have no idea. I don't ask. At this point she is usually so angry that it leads nowhere, except an argument and having to hear what a bad father I am. But this is a serious serious problem. I've calculated, and let her know, htat should we follow this plan, they are taken cared of when my time comes. If we deviate from the plan, that's going to be a big problem.

    I feel she is hiding something from me. She always tells me she has these bills and even the student loan seems to be different every time. Sometimes it's 3500 euros, sometimes it's 7000 euros. I would think she remembers which one it is.

    I'm afraid of our future. I don't know how to fix this. She is acting like an addict with money. But now it's not her money anymore. It's not even that she got something for herself using credit and can't pay it and is asking for some money. It's more serious. I have no idea what's happening, and I'm worried because she won't tell me what it is. Or she is, but clearly it's not true. If it is true, she is the most horrible person with money ever known to human kind and should not be trusted with a single coin.

    But with all that, I'm just lonely and afraid. I always thought it's the other way around - women crying how they can't get through their burly men who drink beer and keep them in the kitchen.

    I'm afraid to ask the question "if we didn't have kids, what would I do?". It would be too easy. So that's a question I don't ask myself. Even more so since my time on this existence is very limited. Which makes my questions and worry urgent.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

  • #2
    How recent is the second baby? Quite recent isn't it? Sounds a lot like Post Natal Depression.
    Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
    Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
    We've got both kinds

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    • #3
      I agree. Try giving her space and keep helping. As far as the finances, I'm not sure that I have advice.
      You're paying the bills? It would seem there would be some kind of payment notice, which states the amount due and due date.
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • #4
        Well, Pekka.

        You're going to have to start tracking her expenses, what she takes in and what she's spending. Not talking about it isn't solving anything. You're also going to have to get it in writing that each of you are going to put in X a month into the account, so on and so forth. Then at the end of the month, go over the finances again and the balance.
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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        • #5
          Our second baby is 8 months old now. Could be depression as well. She recently stopped going to a psychologist saying she doesn't need it anymore.

          I'm trying to give her as much space as possible. She reacts with anger, but I realize it's just an outcome from frustration, anxiety or something else. Perhaps shame from screwing up with money, or negative feelings due to being so tired, or having negative feelings toward the kids for making her tired, and feeling ashamed of that, etc. It's complex with small kids, it's not easy. And it's not like people really tell you how it is when they have two cute little kids. You know it when you have them. Yeah they're cute and the whole world, but there's the side of constant energy being sucked out as well.

          I think she is making decisions impulsively and often regrets them soon afterwards. This is a pattern she has had probably always, making quick decisions and being sort of easy to push. It would be very easy to sell her anything and everything, but she is not stupid, just impulsive and feels the pressure of everything easily. Feeling inadequate quite easily, I have to be careful when trying to help the situation or fix something that needs fixing.

          I'm hanging in but I'm starting to be anxious myself. It's been longer than 8 months that these patterns have been going on, it is just now very amplified and when there has been more transparency into things by force due to building a house, it has become obvious that she hasn't been truthful about things.

          It's not 100 % honesty I seek. I understand saving face, or trying to buy some more time to fix something else. That's all good. This is part of the problem from my part as well. I'm almost a fanatic when it comes to privacy. Privacy of everyone, not just myself. So my position is that she has a right to her own privacy, and that includes where she spends her money, etc. It's not my business. But it is my business when it comes to our future and the house, we seriously can't make it if she can't keep up with what she has said she could contribute, and it's very doable. That's not the question. She can easily make it, unless something else is up, and something is up. My best guess is that she just impulse buys small stuff that accumulates into bills that she can't pay and just doesn't get it. And she might have some other loan or credit she is paying back and is ashamed to talk about. That's all OK, she doesn't have to, it's her business, but what we need is to know if we can save moeny as planned. If not, we have to make drastic changes right now. Stakes are high and she doesn't want to sort of take it in and understand it truly. When I punch the clock, they are going to lose my salary, and I can't get an insurance anymore and didn't have a life insurance, so they'll be left with nothing else than what I can accumulate now. That means building a new home is a very high risk proposition, and yet it can be done and from my point of view is done for the kids. Even if I go out early, we'd be in a good situation loan wise, leaving it with few years unpaid, in worst case they could re-arrange the loan or sell it to get a new one, point being they can pay it back with low salary, cheaper than rent. But how it's going now, it's not happening, and they will be left with having to have to sell the house that we built, having unpaid debt on top of that, and having to find a cheap place to rent on some ****ty neighborhood (apartments are expensive in here).

          I don't want to die knowing that. This is my legacy, since I can't go living into my 50s or 60s, I can still leave something material, a safe place for them to live, a nice house for them to grow up and low living cost so they can get by when the money will become short. Something, that if really and truly faced with serious problems, they could sell with profit and gain close to 400k. They could buy another, cheaper house, or rent money for decades. Few decades, money taken cared of. I can die knowing that. I can't even express how important that is in my situation. Of course, kids need their father, not material things. But let's just say that I can die in peace knowing they will have a place to live, and even more so now, knowing how there is a pattern of really poor money management on my SO's part.

          I'll give her time. One thing that is positive in this setting is that ... even though I think I need to get out of a relationship, being essential to life and not having too much of it to experience anymore, that the strongest motivation is my kids. I am setting them an example, and if it means faking that my emotional and other adult needs are in balance, then that's better than other options.

          So you might now derive from this the fact that I'm left with not so much human contact or companionship, a lot of work, a lot of giving space and trying to find my own time somewhere to enjoy things, trying to understand on top of understanding and sort of neglect that I also need help and support, and lots of it(!!!) and that I matter and there's not so much time to matter in this existence so better get on with it.. so this on one cup and on the other cup weighs in the image my kids will have of me. I'd rather pay the price of being tormented adult relationship wise knowing I won't get another chance ever, but having my kids remembering me as a loving father and us as a family unit that never broke.

          All in all, it's kind of ... how should I put it... depressing. I'm just going all over the wall with different little issues here, but since I really don't have anyone else to talk to at the moment, I figured posting a thread might help. And might gain few good tips or maybe some of you are in a same situation relationship wise.
          In da butt.
          "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
          THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
          "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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          • #6
            And she might have some other loan or credit she is paying back and is ashamed to talk about. That's all OK, she doesn't have to, it's her business
            No, it's not, "her business". It's "your business" now that you are married. If she's got outstanding loans you need to know what they are and how much and the true extent of her present financial situation, good or bad. This goes for you as well. You can't be 'intensely private', and just hope for it all to work out. Your business is now her business.
            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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            • #7
              BK, I did exactly that, short of having it written in paper and tracking her expenses outside what we have agreed to save. Once I noticed she's been taking money from our account, I asked her what they were for, every single one.

              Going hard on her for it right now is something I'm afraid to do. I've pushed her for this one already, and we've had several discussions before about this, how we're going to do it. Well "discussions", as in I talked, she was quiet and said OK at the end and agreed that it's a good way to do it and agreed to do it.

              I worry because I pay for everything now except for the food. She pays for the food because she goes to the grocery store, but everything else is taken cared of. Every now and then she buys some gas for the car, but then again she is the only one using it. I take care of all the rest (got the car, pay insurance, other costs, the rest of the gas). These are basic things in life. So as a person who gets almost a normal salary, if you only buy food, then how is there nothing left after that. What are these bills? And no, I don't look at them too closely, it's her business. I'd like to keep it that way adn trust she won't go over my stuff either.
              In da butt.
              "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
              THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
              "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

              Comment


              • #8
                And no, I don't look at them too closely, it's her business. I'd like to keep it that way adn trust she won't go over my stuff either.
                Won't work. You'll end up angry with each other and fighting all the time.

                If it isn't written down - it didn't happen. Everything has to be written down because you are having trouble making budget. One of you is going to have to run the finances, and the other one is going to have to accept whomever's responsibility it is. If it's going to be you - then that's what you are going to have to do - go over what she actually spends and on what, and on what her salary is actually going for.

                Yes, it's a pain in the ass now, but it will fix the longterm issues.

                This is all workable stuff, but it means getting out of some bad habits you both have where you aren't talking to each other.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                • #9
                  You absolutely need to tread carefully.

                  I totally agree with you Pekka, she needs responsibility for her own finances. Suggesting otherwise is a recipe for disaster. I don't see how one person can run both lots of finances, it's not the 1950s with one bread winner and one partner who exists on handouts. It's her own salary she earns herself she absolutely needs input into how it's spent. And people do need incidental expenses, and these can add up quite fast.

                  Anyway, the finances are only a symptom. The problem is that you aren't communicating for a variety of reasons. This kind of stuff can be very common after having kids.

                  Communication is a two way thing - if she says you are a terrible father you will be upset but if it is Post Natal Depression, or another kind of depression, she won't be thinking rationally. So you need to not take it personally and try and work through it with her.

                  Can she give some examples of things you need to do better?

                  The other thing you need to bear in mind - she probably doesn't want to think about you being gone. If you see this house as your legacy it could be that she's subconsciously sabotaging it because she doesn't want to think or deal with the idea of you not being there.

                  I don't know that there's a lot more you can do other than continue to be sympathetic and help her work through whatever's going on. Things will likely improve once the youngest gets older and is less of a strain anyway.

                  Good luck.
                  Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                  Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                  We've got both kinds

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                  • #10
                    As a practical suggestion you could think about changing the arrangement from her putting "all her spare money" into that account into something where she puts a small fixed sum in the account every month, you see how that goes for a few months and if she can afford it raise the amount.
                    Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                    Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                    We've got both kinds

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Also kids cost a fortune, I know my wife spends tons on things like clothes etc for our daughter and she doesn't buy excessive amounts.
                      Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                      Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                      We've got both kinds

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        MikeH - I'm not saying she doesn't get a say as to where her money goes. I'm just saying, get it all down on paper so he can see where the money's going. Also, someone has to be in charge of it, or it's not going to get done. That goes for his expenses and her expenses. You can't nail down your budget unless you start being anal about keeping track. I agree with the fixed amount every month - but that has to be put down in writing so that everyone is on the same page.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is something I've forced her to do already. I'm keeping a tracking record of all of our spending on the house and also our budget, how we're doing. It's got everything, dates, amounts of money, what was purchased and from who, etc. But it seems I'm the only one taking a look at it. She refuses to physically look at it. She is willing to listen what is there, but in reality she hearing me announce words but it's just not getting through.

                          I've told her to save receipts from the grocery store. I don't actually look at them, but so she can track her spending habits and to save ALL receipts. This has no effect what so ever.

                          She is in strong denial. It's not as easy as it seems. The solution seems simple but execution is complex due to collateral damage.

                          This has to do with my personality as well. I've let this go too far. I find myself being scared of her, well not her, but her reaction to things. I think I'll wait and give her a little more space and next month if the result is still the same, I have to put take strong action. I just try to love her more in the meanwhile. See if that works. But clearly, after that, I have to state that she clearly needs help and in order for me to help we need to do it together, finances is my strong point and I can take over it or we can do it together.
                          In da butt.
                          "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                          THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                          "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Spreadsheet Ben, it all goes in a spreadsheet.
                            Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                            Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                            We've got both kinds

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hang on hang on if it's been a couple years since you had sex how do you have an 8 month old? Something does not add up here.

                              edit: oh I'm an idiot, 8 months + 9 months = 17 months ~= 1.5 years

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