Obamacare vs Supreme Court Round 2: This time its personal?

[snoopy369]

I'm fine with Obama attempting to impose legal penalties contrary to the settled law of the Supreme Court of the United States which states that Obama cannot levy fines for non-compliance.

Erm, that's not what they said; they said that the medicare funds can't be taken away from states who don't participate in the exchange provision (which is one of the more market-leaning elements of it, so frankly any state that refuses to is cutting off its nose to spite its face IMO). Nothing about the income tax penalties.

[snoopy369]

No, I can't. Insofar as I am required to pay for it as part of Obamacare, I am forced to pay for it. I have no option of opting out. Other people are granted Obamacare waivers - why cannot Obama grant a waiver to every Catholic in America?

Read. His. Post. A Quaker can, personally, opt out of military service; so can you opt out of using abortions and contraceptives, PERSONALLY. Neither of you can choose not to pay taxes, even if some of those taxes fund something you don't like.

[Ben Kenobi]

Religion is just a cop out here. Nobody is telling you that you have to change your mind, any more than the objectors had to change their mind about the war. You're not personally supporting abortions or contraception or anything else. You're paying taxes, and the government, which is the will of the people as a whole - not you personally - decided that some of those go to health insurance that includes these things. That's how it _has_ to work, or you end up with effective anarchy as each group that objects to something bows out of this or that until nothing can get done

Yes, I am personally supporting abortion and contraception. There is zero constitutional mandate for taxpayer funded health care. Zero. And, you're telling me that the nation prior to Obamacare was anarchy? Complete, unmitigated nonsense. America ran just fine without it, and Obama himself has granted plenty of Obamacare waivers. If he believed that granting waivers was wrong, he wouldn't do it. Since Obama himself has established that granting Obamacare waivers is absolutely legal, he should grant one to every Catholic in America.

[MrFun]

To be fair, saying that a man can opt out of having an abortion sounds kinda ridiculous.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Read. His. Post. A Quaker can, personally, opt out of military service; so can you opt out of using abortions and contraceptives, PERSONALLY. Neither of you can choose not to pay taxes, even if some of those taxes fund something you don't like.

This. And I'll requote it again and again as Ben tries to move goalposts.

[Ben Kenobi]

Erm, that's not what they said; they said that the medicare funds can't be taken away from states who don't participate in the exchange provision (which is one of the more market-leaning elements of it, so frankly any state that refuses to is cutting off its nose to spite its face IMO). Nothing about the income tax penalties.

Texas has chosen not to participate. Obamacare has no force here, and in 17 other states that have chosen not to comply. And, thanks to the Supreme Court, there is nothing Obama can do to force anyone residing in these 17 states to comply.

Now that Obamacare is up in the Supreme Court again - we shall see whether Catholics are or are not exempt from the legislation entirely.

[Imran Siddiqui]

There is zero constitutional mandate for taxpayer funded health care. Zero.

This has been shown to be incorrect... esp by the people who decide what the constitution means.

[DinoDoc]

Question.

If you think that if you are opposed to contraception that you shouldn't have to pay for Obamacare because others will get contraception from it (who are presumably not opposed to it), does that mean that everybody who was against the Iraq war on moral grounds could stop paying the 33% or so of their taxes that go to the DoD?

I reject the premise of the question as it presupposes Obamacare as a single payer system rather than what it is at this time: an onerous government imposition of contract terms in a private negotiation between two private parties. If and when it makes the transition to a single payer system, your comparison to the taxes used to fund the government will make more sense and take on the air of validity.

[Ben Kenobi]

This has been shown to be incorrect... esp by the people who decide what the constitution means.

Four did said that it was unconstitutional, and I happen to agree with those four. There was a time when 8 justices said that sterilizing the mentally unfit was constitutional.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Four did said that it was unconstitutional, and I happen to agree with those four. There was a time when 8 justices said that sterilizing the mentally unfit was constitutional.

That's great. You go with that and see how far it gets you.

[DinoDoc]

Four did said that it was unconstitutional, and I happen to agree with those four. There was a time when 8 justices said that sterilizing the mentally unfit was constitutional.

Technically 5 said it was unconstitutional. 1 of those became more concerned with his "legacy" and party invites rather than what the Constitution said.

[Ben Kenobi]

Technically 5 said it was unconstitutional. 1 of those became more concerned with his "legacy" and party invites rather than what the Constitution said.

"Justice", requires just that. I'm not sure what you would call Roberts? Traitor seems too mild.

[Ben Kenobi]

That's great. You go with that and see how far it gets you.

Want to guess the religion of the lone dissenter?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Speaking of forced sterilization, the amusing thing is that opposition to that is based on the Substantive Due Process Clause (didn't really exist in the 1930s), which ended up being the justification for abortion rights.

[kentonio]

Read. His. Post. A Quaker can, personally, opt out of military service; so can you opt out of using abortions and contraceptives, PERSONALLY. Neither of you can choose not to pay taxes, even if some of those taxes fund something you don't like.

You still havent answered this, Ben.