So about that abortion thing..

[kentonio]

Why do you find it so difficult to understand quite how important the child's life to its own body really is? In particular, its right not to be murdered?

In other words, you continue to refuse to try and understand the other sides position. Here's another clue, the pro-choice side don't like abortion either, they just balance it against the alternative and find the alternative to be unacceptable.

[regexcellent]

I don't give much of a **** about human life when that human life is pointing a gun at me. I don't feel like stringing someone up in court just because he made a split second decision in order to protect himself and some armchair ******* in a suit with a JD thinks he could have done things differently.

[regexcellent]

In other words, you continue to refuse to try and understand the other sides position. Here's another clue, the pro-choice side don't like abortion either, they just balance it against the alternative and find the alternative to be unacceptable.

You are the one who refuses to understand the other side's position. He understands the "woman's body" argument perfectly well. That is the argument to use to say that it should be legal if you also assume that the fetus is not a moral person. If the fetus is a moral person, the "woman's body" thing is totally irrelevant because a few more months of pregnancy is not nearly as bad as being ****ing murdered.

[Jaguar]

Huh? I'm only in favour of legalizing first trimester abortions and I've argued at length in the past as to why I chose that timeline. I just realized such detailed, thought-out arguments are useless against a mass of people who don't give a **** and want to think the world is black and white.

I will admit I misunderstood your position and I'm actually surprised that your position is far more restrictive than mine.

I am (pleasantly) surprised to hear this is Asher's position. It is probably the one I'd be most likely to agree with, but I admit a high degree of uncertainty.

[notyoueither]

I have decided that every time a new abortion thread is posted on Poly, I will endeavor to post at least one example per page of posts of a result from a GIS of "annoying gif" or something similar along those lines.

Needs more cowbell.

[notyoueither]

I know HC et al will all say "those things aren't the same!"

I didn't say they are, I am just pointing out that whether a foetus is a person or not is not the deciding factor in the debate.

It's a pretty important one, isn't it?"

[kentonio]

You are the one who refuses to understand the other side's position. He understands the "woman's body" argument perfectly well. That is the argument to use to say that it should be legal if you also assume that the fetus is not a moral person. If the fetus is a moral person, the "woman's body" thing is totally irrelevant because a few more months of pregnancy is not nearly as bad as being ****ing murdered.

In other words you do not understand the position, because what you just did was engage in circular reasoning based solely on your own argument. Try going to speaking to a pro-choice woman about this, and resist the urge to just spout your own beliefs at her. You might get an insight into why the pro-choice side is quite as determined as it is.

[Elok]

Atlas Shagged is a late-2011 rush production directed by Atlas Shrugged Part I director Paul Johansson, using its entire original cast, in an attempt to recoup losses from it. The story centers on lustful industrialists "Horny Hardon" and "Bangme Buggered" as they travel/copulate around an America left underpopulated by an unhealthy attachment to loving, consensual relationships. All the most fertile and sexually desirable members of society are mysteriously disappearing, one by one, leaving behind only a cryptic question: "who is Big Johnson?"

Hardon and Buggered scour the country for clues, along the way finding a formula to make a man "harder than steel." In one memorable scene, Buggered pictures a whole train full of cable repairmen, pizza delivery boys and plumbers naked, concluding that they are likely all terrible in bed. At last they find Big Johnson and the missing people at Johnson's secluded Love Fortress, where Johnson (in an uninterrupted five-minute speech) details the new philosophy of Objectification that will save America. The best sex, Johnson explains, is sex wherein each seeks to climax as quickly and efficiently as possible, without concern for the other party's wishes or feelings. Johnson then demonstrates by brutally raping a homeless person at gunpoint, to general applause. The movie ends with the entire randy group planning a massive orgy; ultimately, however, they cannot agree on a mutually satisfactory arrangement, and in a post-credits sequence they are shown furiously masturbating while each gazes longingly at his or her most recent bank statement.

Critical reaction and sales were both generally poor ("reverse Viagra"; "the most depressing thing I've ever seen"), with Roger Ebert in particular noting that "I saw it a week ago, and I'm still impotent; also, the acting is quite poor, even by porn standards." However, the film did outperform Shrugged, Part I, allowing the sequel to go forward.

[Felch]

Problem is, people who are against abortion don't appear to consider what happens to women worthy of consideration.

If I can save a human life at the cost of one person's statistical wellbeing, then I'd say that's a better than fair trade. What value do you place on human life?

[kentonio]

Tell us more about how women should act as breeding cattle for the sake of your personal morality.

[Felch]

Tell me more about how killing children is okay, as long as they're really really small.

[Jon Miller]

I read posts like the one by Asher, and I think 'we aren't so different after all'.

Then I read posts like the one right above by Kent, and I think 'wow, how can he think such a thing?'.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, did you even bother to read the conclusions of the study you linked to?????

Yes,

the higher rate of suicide MIGHT just as well have been caused by the fact that they were in a a lower social class, or unmarried.

Is there any evidence to prove that this is fact, or mere speculation.

The study does show that those women who have abortions do commit suicide at a rate of 3.5 times that of women who choose to carry to term. This IS a fact.

[regexcellent]

Arguing with Kentonio on abortion is like talking to a brick wall. Really, I'd just like him to acknowledge that murdering babies is not okay. Just that. Not that fetuses are moral people or any of that stuff, but that if I take a 1-month-old baby and stab him, that there isn't an excuse for that.

Then I'd like to see him apply that logic to babies one day from being born.

But I don't think he knows how.

Another thing worth pointing out is that if your baby is one day from being born you have just one more day of hardship to deal with. 9 months of pregnancy is a big deal. 1 day of pregnancy is quite obviously not worth a life.

[giblets]

Tell me more about how killing children is okay, as long as they're really really small.

Tell us how fusing a human sperm cell and a human egg instantly creates a person.