So about that abortion thing..

[MikeH]

Only when you haven't read them properly and don't understand that's not what they do.

[Ben Kenobi]

Were all other factors controlled?

Well, given that suicides among those who are poor are not 6.5x those that are rich - even if you were to control for income levels, I don't think that's going to change things. It's not going to bring the rate down to unity. I do agree that some of the difference is related to income levels, but that only explains part of it. I think most of it is the abortion and what abortion does to woman's mental health. Women with children tend to commit suicide less than single women, but it's not 6.5x the difference, same with income levels.

[Ming]

Right, I'm so much worse off by arguing that there exists scientific studies that defend my opinions.

Not when the studies don't prove your point, and you just keeping making crap up anyway...

[MikeH]

It's the second time in recent weeks you've quoted a scientific study at me to back you up and then I've read it and found out it didn't. The other one was foetuses and embryonic stem cells. You quoted a scientific paper that backed up exactly what I said.

[Ben Kenobi]

Only when you haven't read them properly and don't understand that's not what they do.

The 'conclusion' that you are hanging your hat on - the problem is that there is zero evidence for it in the paper. The actual data provides a much more interesting investigation into what is actually going on here.

[Ben Kenobi]

Not when the studies don't prove your point, and you just keeping making crap up anyway...

The data does.

The study makes it very clear that this data does not show a causal relationship.

Rather than ask the question - "Is it possible that this study is true", they invent reasons why "this study MUST be false". This is terrible science. Follow the data where it leads. In this case, the 6.5x is just so far out there that it doesn't seem to me that their rationales are sufficient to explain it all away.

But that's just my commonsense opinion.

[MikeH]

Well, given that suicides among those who are poor are not 6.5x those that are rich - even if you were to control for income levels, I don't think that's going to change things. It's not going to bring the rate down to unity. I do agree that some of the difference is related to income levels, but that only explains part of it. I think most of it is the abortion and what abortion does to woman's mental health. Women with children tend to commit suicide less than single women, but it's not 6.5x the difference, same with income levels.

Let me try and put this in laymans terms. We have two ideas:

1. Abortion causes increased risk of suicide.
2. Women with increased risk of suicide more likely to get into situations where they require abortions.

The authors of your study state that their study can't be used to determine which of these is correct.

[MikeH]

The 'conclusion' that you are hanging your hat on - the problem is that there is zero evidence for it in the paper. The actual data provides a much more interesting investigation into what is actually going on here.

YES YOU BLITHERING IDIOT :

THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE FOR IT BEING CAUSAL OR COMMON CAUSE IN THE PAPER THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY IN THE CONCLUSIONS!!!

[Ben Kenobi]

It's the second time in recent weeks you've quoted a scientific study at me to back you up and then I've read it and found out it didn't. The other one was foetuses and embryonic stem cells. You quoted a scientific paper that backed up exactly what I said.

You yourself admitted that the data in this study does not back up their conclusions.

[MikeH]

I wish I had left this at the incredibly prescient post where I said you wouldn't understand my response.

[Ben Kenobi]

1. Abortion causes increased risk of suicide.
2. Women with increased risk of suicide more likely to get into situations where they require abortions.

For 2 to be correct - we would expect to see ratios on the same order as the 6.5x for single women vs women with children, or poor women with wealthy women. We do not. We see stuff on the order of maybe 10 percent. Not 6.5 times. These are just astronomical odds.

I don't believe their corrections for marital status, age and will explain 6.5x odds in favour of suicide away. This seems commonsense to me.

[Ben Kenobi]

I wish I had left this at the incredibly prescient post where I said you wouldn't understand my response.

You agreed with me that their conclusions were mere speculation (ie, not backed up with their data in the study). That's a vindication. I don't expect you to draw your interpretation of this study from the data they provide.

[kentonio]

Their conclusion is that you can't draw the conclusions you want, you ****ing moron!

[Ben Kenobi]

Their conclusion is that you can't draw the conclusions you want, you ****ing moron!

Mike already *admitted*, that they were just making crap up to fit their perceived notions as to what the data *should* be. This is bad science.

[kentonio]

Ok, for a second there I actually forgot that you are nothing more than a ridiculous troll who gets his kicks trying to annoy people on the internet.