So about that abortion thing..

[MikeH]

My point was that you wouldn't understand what I said. I'll try again. I bet you still don't comprehend it because you have never shown any reading comprehension ability in the past.

The papers authors, in their conclusions, said that you couldn't use their data to prove that there was a causal link between the two things, but that it warranted further research.

Which I completely agree with.

And the other research kentonio presented doesn't mention suicide but suggests that depression rates of people who have had abortions or been refused them are not really different after 1 year - will be interesting to see what their conslusions are after 5 years.

The two things together suggest that it may well be that there common risk factors that make some women more likely to commit suicide and seek abortion (eg. rape and or other sexual abuse, which is very common in women).

But that's just speculation, we don't have enough data to know.

[Ming]

The study shows a statistically significant increase in the suicide rate for women following abortion, over and above that of women who carry to term. Your point again?

His point was simple.... learn to read and think. Even the authors of the study say it doesn't prove a link... so why should you.
Just keep pulling stuff out of your ass... typical for you since you have no real facts to support your BS.

[dannubis]

Ben, the only thing you could possibly conclude following your retarded logic is that woman are *gasp* indeed human...
Yes, it hurts most women to have an abortion. Only, in their mind, at that exact time, having the baby would hurt them - or the future child - more.

Again, empathy is not really your strongest trait, isn't it. You convince me every day that "self-proclaimed moral" people like you are a very good reason not to give religion a too important place in day to day social decisions.

[MikeH]

I'm actually surprised the abortion wasn't allowed given the law as stated in the srticle.

The law is unclear, there is a supreme court precedent that says it is ok, but there hasn't been a subsequent clarification of the law. So any decision made by doctors either way in this case would have left them liable to a subsequent court case and possible reversal.

[Ben Kenobi]

No it doesn't, you troll.

Yes, it does. The only argument provided against it is that the cause might be something else other than abortion - not that the link isn't statistically significant. That's at best, mere speculation.

[Ben Kenobi]

The papers authors, in their conclusions, said that you couldn't use their data to prove that there was a causal link between the two things, but that it warranted further research.

And how does that address the fact that, according to this study, there exists a statistical significant correlation between women who have an abortion and between an increased suicide rate 6.5x that of women who choose to keep to term?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, the only thing you could possibly conclude following your retarded logic is that woman are *gasp* indeed human...
Yes, it hurts most women to have an abortion. Only, in their mind, at that exact time, having the baby would hurt them - or the future child - more.

Given that this proves that abortion does hurt many women - would that not suggest those who are opposed to abortion are motived by a desire to save the life of both the mother and child?

[kentonio]

I wonder if you even understand how much more respect you'd gain if you just stood by your own opinions rather than blatently lying about things. Why do you do it when it's so idiotically transparent?

[giblets]

Let me get this straight:
Ben digs up some study that indicates that women who have abortions commit suicide more frequently than women who give birth. The study makes it very clear that this data does not show a causal relationship. To do that, you need to control for other variables by only comparing women who have abortions to women who requested abortions but were turned away. Incidentally this is precisely the sort of study kentonio linked to when he started the thread. Ben apparently didn't read the OP because he derides any assertion that abortions and suicide have common cause as "mere speculation at best".

[Ming]

Yes, it does. The only argument provided against it is that the cause might be something else other than abortion - not that the link isn't statistically significant. That's at best, mere speculation.

The EXPERTS that ACTUALLY did the study say that they can NOT come to that conclusion... Only a moron like you would ignore what the experts are saying about their own study and just blow smoke out of your ass. But again, totally expected from you. You provide a link that doesn't prove what you claim, but then act like an idiot and claim it still does even when shown your are wrong.

[MikeH]

Let me get this straight:
Ben digs up some study that indicates that women who have abortions commit suicide more frequently than women who give birth. The study makes it very clear that this data does not show a causal relationship. To do that, you need to control for other variables by only comparing women who have abortions to women who requested abortions but were turned away. Incidentally this is precisely the sort of study kentonio linked to when he started the thread. Ben apparently didn't read the OP because he derides any assertion that abortions and suicide have common cause as "mere speculation at best".

To be fair - I think he's right that common cause is speculation at best, exactly as saying it's causal is speculation at best.

[onodera]

Yes, it does. The only argument provided against it is that the cause might be something else other than abortion - not that the link isn't statistically significant. That's at best, mere speculation.

Were all other factors controlled?

[MrFun]

Let me get this straight:
Ben digs up some study that indicates that women who have abortions commit suicide more frequently than women who give birth. The study makes it very clear that this data does not show a causal relationship. To do that, you need to control for other variables by only comparing women who have abortions to women who requested abortions but were turned away. Incidentally this is precisely the sort of study kentonio linked to when he started the thread. Ben apparently didn't read the OP because he derides any assertion that abortions and suicide have common cause as "mere speculation at best".

Whenever I spill a drink, somewhere a kitten dies. I swear the two are linked!!

[MrFun]

Oh, and this thread has inspired me to have my new, current sig line.

[Ben Kenobi]

I wonder if you even understand how much more respect you'd gain if you just stood by your own opinions rather than blatently lying about things. Why do you do it when it's so idiotically transparent?

Right, I'm so much worse off by arguing that there exists scientific studies that defend my opinions.