BC/AD vs BCE/CE

[Kidlicious]

The whole world without christianity would definitely look vastly different from our own. I wouldn´t be able to tell if it would be better, or worse, however, as the absence of Christianity and Islam would might also have lead to lo9ts of positive developments.
Who knows ... without Christianity and Islam maybe Buddhism would be world religion now ... and the world a much more peaceful place

I doubt if we would have democracies without Christianity. You know, the all men are created equal thing.

[onodera]

I doubt if we would have democracies without Christianity. You know, the all men are created equal thing.

You can have democracy without Christianity or equality.

[Kidlicious]

You can have democracy without Christianity or equality.

But could you have it without people with religious convictions having the will to fight and die for it?

[giblets]

I doubt if we would have democracies without Christianity. You know, the all men are created equal thing.

Democracy predates Christianity.

[Kidlicious]

Democracy predates Christianity.

I'm not saying that it's impossible. I'm saying that we probably wouldn't have democracy if it weren't for Christianity.

[giblets]

I'm not saying that it's impossible. I'm saying that we probably wouldn't have democracy if it weren't for Christianity.

But what's the basis for that assertion? Plenty of Christian kings invoked divine right as a justification for their rule. The logic being that God put them in that position, so you should be obey them. Christians can be for monarchy or dictatorship just as easily as they can be for democracy. Why should anyone view Christians as being especially pro-democracy?

[Ben Kenobi]

Why should anyone view Christians as being especially pro-democracy?

Kid's already answered this precise question - Christianity explicitly teaches that everyone is equal. I would also add that Christians have fought and died to support democracy and to prevent regimes from falling under tyranny. Nobody else cares enough to lift a finger.

A better question - is to name a democracy currently present today without significant Christian influence.

[giblets]

I know in your world correlation implies causation whenever you consider it convenient.

[Kidlicious]

But what's the basis for that assertion?

Because democracy is not natural human behavior. Human beings naturally rule over others. It shouldn't suprise anyone that they do so with whatever tools work best. But the fact is that we have democracy today because christians fought and died for it specifically because of their religious convictions. We know from the American Revolution that they probably wouldn't have if they didn't have such religious convictions. They probably would have just accepted Brittish rule. The colonists weren't in any hurry to fight and die for some other rich people, but they did so because they believe it was a sin to do otherwise.

[Ben Kenobi]

I know in your world correlation implies causation whenever you consider it convenient.

Wow, a thrilling, non-specific non-sequitor impunging both my impartiality and integrity.

[giblets]

Because democracy is not natural human behavior. Human beings naturally rule over others. It shouldn't suprise anyone that they do so with whatever tools work best. But the fact is that we have democracy today because christians fought and died for it specifically because of their religious convictions. We know from the American Revolution that they probably wouldn't have if they didn't have such religious convictions. They probably would have just accepted Brittish rule. The colonists weren't in any hurry to fight and die for some other rich people, but they did so because they believe it was a sin to do otherwise.

No, we don't know that from the American Revolution. Thomas Jefferson, for instance, was not a Christian but was obviously willing to take great risks for the cause of democracy. If the colonists thought the Bible demanded that they protest taxation without representation they obviously didn't read the Bible. Your interpretation of events is rather bizarre.

[Ben Kenobi]

Thomas Jefferson, for instance, was not a Christian

Name someone you consider to be a Christian, the best example that you know.

[N35t0r]

Nobody else cares enough to lift a finger.

You know you are insulting every non-christian who ever fought for democracy, and that this group is very very large?

[Ben Kenobi]

You know you are insulting every non-christian who ever fought for democracy, and that this group is very very large?

Give me some examples then. The nation that has been primarily responsible for the protection of democracy is the United States. Prior to that, it was the British Empire, and I can quote Kipling as to the motivations as to why.

I am convinced that secularists don't really like democracy all that much and would prefer a dictatorship - or the technocrats ruling over them. I am seeing plenty of evidence thereof in Europe to remove democracy where democracy is opposed to the will of their betters.

[Kidlicious]

No, we don't know that from the American Revolution. Thomas Jefferson, for instance, was not a Christian but was obviously willing to take great risks for the cause of democracy. If the colonists thought the Bible demanded that they protest taxation without representation they obviously didn't read the Bible. Your interpretation of events is rather bizarre.

No, you just don't know much about the history of your own country. One man wasn't a christian! Wow! That's so relevant. Nevermind that most everyone else was! Wow.