Intrade: 70.5% chance Obama will win third debate

[MRT144]

In 1860, there was no consensus on whether black people were people either.

Asher, you'd love my friend Andrew. He thinks the South should have won. He is also anti-gay though, so you should avoid talking about that around him.

Probably a homosexual himself.

[MRT144]

QFT

So on the one hand you want to live in democracy where anything goes, but then on the other hand you talk about the perils of a democracy that didn't view blacks as people.

[Hauldren Collider]

Probably a homosexual himself.

Most definitely not. He's a cool dude actually, even if his political beliefs are kooky. He doesn't go around calling gay people sinners. Just is a wee bit homophobic.

[Hauldren Collider]

So on the one hand you want to live in democracy where anything goes, but then on the other hand you talk about the perils of a democracy that didn't view blacks as people.

We stopped slavery with a constitutional amendment, not judicial fiat.

We also used a little military fiat . But the point is that the courts didn't legislate from the bench.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh wait no we can't because of Roe v. Wade.

Unfortunately true. The country was seemingly moving towards a European style consensus (abortion in 1st trimester, banned in 3rd trimester, with restrictions in 2nd trimester) prior to Roe. Now it's kind of all or nothing.

[Asher]

In 1860, there was no consensus on whether black people were people either.

Maybe in your backwards country.

That was not the case in Canada.

In 1860, Slavery had been explicitly illegal for 70 years in Canada and black Canadians have been voting for 30 years.

[giblets]

Unfortunately true. The country was seemingly moving towards a European style consensus (abortion in 1st trimester, banned in 3rd trimester, with restrictions in 2nd trimester) prior to Roe. Now it's kind of all or nothing.

Hardly anyone has 3rd trimester abortions anyway. In practice we essentially have what you described.

[Guynemer]

We stopped slavery with a constitutional amendment, not judicial fiat.

We also used a little military fiat . But the point is that the courts didn't legislate from the bench.

Yup. Those goddamned courts legislating from the bench. Nothing good ever comes from that.

[MRT144]

Most definitely not. He's a cool dude actually, even if his political beliefs are kooky. He doesn't go around calling gay people sinners. Just is a wee bit homophobic.

A cool dude who hates gays and thinks the south should have won...does not compute.

[Asher]

A cool dude who hates gays and thinks the south should have won...does not compute.

It does if you have the humanity and empathy HC has demonstrated here.

[MRT144]

Yup. Those goddamned courts legislating from the bench. Nothing good ever comes from that.

Hey, if blacks want to go to college they just have to let the white majority vote to allow them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hardly anyone has 3rd trimester abortions anyway. In practice we essentially have what you described.

Somewhat. Though both sides and pulling and pushing hard on one side or another.

[Jon Miller]

Hardly anyone has 3rd trimester abortions anyway. In practice we essentially have what you described.

Hardly anyone is killed with guns, so in practice we have a society free from gun violence.

JM

[snoopy369]

BTW there is some talk about lowering the age limit for abortion in the UK from 24 weeks - this is the kind of information we are getting to inform us :

http://www.rcog.org.uk/what-we-do/ca...gy-bill/brie-0

24 weeks is actually an important time point, because currently the only non-invasive test for chromosomal abnormalities (Downs, Spinal Bifida, etc.) is typically carried out at 22 weeks - this is a long ultrasound (~1 hour) comparing measurements of various parts of the fetus in order to determine the risk profile. Because invasive tests such as amniocentesis carry a nontrivial risk of inducing a miscarriage (between 0.2% and 0.5% depending on who you ask), many families prefer noninvasive tests when their initial risk profile (based on mother's age, father's age, and a few other factors) initially is sufficiently low that an amniocentesis would carry a higher risk than the risk of an abnormal fetus.

Once those scans are done (Around 20-22 weeks), the baby is assigned an updated risk profile; the parents then may choose to perform invasive tests or not as a result. If you get a low risk profile (say, 1 in 5000), many will choose not to perform additional testing. However, if you do get a higher profile, you'd take an amnio and see what the cause is (or, not - 'high risk' might be 1/100 or something, so still relatively low).

Either way, if they cut it back from 24 weeks to, say, 20, it would have two effects - one, you couldn't make the decision to abort based on the risk profile analysis; and two, as a result of that, a lot more amnios would be done (which can be done at 16 weeks), which would mean more miscarriages (or, deaths, from that point of view?).

[Hauldren Collider]

Hey, if blacks want to go to college they just have to let the white majority vote to allow them.

That wasn't legislating from the bench. 14th and 15th amendments. Abortion is never mentioned in the constitution.