In Any War Between The Civilized Man ....

[Kidlicious]

The Oldest Christian shrines are located there - the Church of the Holy Sepulchre - the tombs of Mary, etc. I would very much like to go on a pilgrimage all through that part of the world - from Sinai up to Constantinople. Maybe when I'm old and gray I will get a chance. I am glad that Israel is there - they take good care of the Christian shrines.

I don't think there is any difference from on old shrine and a new one, but then I admit there is a bit of difference in the way some people think.

[Dr Strangelove]

Apparently Doc Strangelove is all for it when it's Jews and Christians being kicked out.

Yes, the Jews were there first. Their claim to the land is based on the fact that they had kingdoms there. Ergo - they should have every right to live in the Holy Land in peace.

If Muslims want to live there too - fine. Key word - in peace. They must accept that the Jews have every right to live there and to live with the same safety and security they bring to everyone else. Why do you think the Muslims want to live there? Duh. Jews good at making money yo and they want to take all the stuff that they don't have away.

The part about the Muslim Palestinians being continuous inhabitants of the area for over 2000 years seems to have escaped you. I can trace my family back to Britain. There are somewhere around 40 to 50 million Americans descended from British immigrants. Let's say the environment in America turns hostile and we all want to go back to the motherland but we want to form our own country. Do we have the right to march back into the UK and take 75% of their land to form our new country?

You do know the population of the Mandate before the creation of Israel, right? If it was such a beacon of freedom under Islam - why is it that hardly anyone lived there as compared with now?

Fact - more Muslims live in Israel today than lived there under the Mandate. So not only are the muslims not being kicked off their land - they are doing better - with the Jews, than they did on their own.

The whole world has 3 times more population than it did in 1948. In 1947 Muslims owned more than 95% of the land in the Mandate. The land left to them - Gaza and the West Bank amount to only 22% of the former Mandate and as we all know the Israelis continue to grab additional land in the West Bank.

[Wezil]

Hahaha. You base that on one comment from 2 years ago from someone claiming to be my brother? Really, wezil?

He has more credibility than you.

[Ben Kenobi]

The part about the Muslim Palestinians being continuous inhabitants of the area for over 2000 years seems to have escaped you. I can trace my family back to Britain. There are somewhere around 40 to 50 million Americans descended from British immigrants. Let's say the environment in America turns hostile and we all want to go back to the motherland but we want to form our own country. Do we have the right to march back into the UK and take 75% of their land to form our new country?

Funny you mention that - I have German ancestry and there's this little area called East Prussia.

Jews have a claim on that land too. Jews have every right to live there in peace and security.

In 1947 Muslims owned more than 95% of the land in the Mandate. The land left to them - Gaza and the West Bank amount to only 22% of the former Mandate and as we all know the Israelis continue to grab additional land in the West Bank.

And they invaded Israel and they lost. It happens. You get your ass kicked you suffer the consequences. They've lost, what? 3 times already. Where I come from is if someone invades you and you defeat them - they have no claim to the territory anymore.

[Ben Kenobi]

He has more credibility than you.

What evidence do you have that it was my brother?

[Hauldren Collider]

The part about the Muslim Palestinians being continuous inhabitants of the area for over 2000 years seems to have escaped you. I can trace my family back to Britain. There are somewhere around 40 to 50 million Americans descended from British immigrants. Let's say the environment in America turns hostile and we all want to go back to the motherland but we want to form our own country. Do we have the right to march back into the UK and take 75% of their land to form our new country?

When are you going to admit that this is irrelevant? The Israelis ALREADY LIVE IN ISRAEL. What the **** would you have them do, idiot? Pack up and leave?

[Hauldren Collider]

Sure. The glorified bottle rockets used by the Palestinians in Gaza probably have an accuracy radius of somewhere in the vicinity of a kilometer, once fired there's no telling where they're going to hit to hit a military outpost or someone's backyard. The drones used by the US are guided by television, they actually see what they're going to hit and they have an accuracy radius less than one meter. When the US bombs a wedding it means they saw the wedding first and just went ahead with the mission.

How about when they shoot RPGs at school buses? How about when they blow up suicide bombs in shopping centers? Or do you conveniently not remember the second intifada?

Well, I suppose if I'm gonna pretend to have your ****ed up twisted logic, we could IMAGINE that the school bus MIGHT have been carrying troops that day, which means the Palestinians should just go ahead and blow it up, right?

[DinoDoc]

Do we have the right to march back into the UK and take 75% of their land to form our new country?

If the sovereign over the territory said yes, That claim would have been further strengthened by kicking the **** out of the anglo countries who pledged to drive the American scum into the sea.

[Hauldren Collider]

The part about the Muslim Palestinians being continuous inhabitants of the area for over 2000 years seems to have escaped you. I can trace my family back to Britain. There are somewhere around 40 to 50 million Americans descended from British immigrants. Let's say the environment in America turns hostile and we all want to go back to the motherland but we want to form our own country. Do we have the right to march back into the UK and take 75% of their land to form our new country?

PS: The analogy here is actually Americans : British :: Palestinians : Israelis, since Palestinians are the ones clamoring for a right to return, despite having lived in so-called "refugee camps" in Syria and Jordan for generations.

[giblets]

When are you going to admit that this is irrelevant? The Israelis ALREADY LIVE IN ISRAEL. What the **** would you have them do, idiot? Pack up and leave?

I would have them stop building settlements in the West Bank.

[Wezil]

That would be a good start.

[Dr Strangelove]

Funny you mention that - I have German ancestry and there's this little area called East Prussia.

Jews have a claim on that land too. Jews have every right to live there in peace and security.

Yeah! Look what the Germans of today are doing to your homeland! It's nothing but naked socialism! You and every American of German ancestry have a born right to go back to the Fatherland and found your own state based on ancient German culture. You must revive the Holy Roman Empire. Of course you'll desire peace, who doesn't? Just so long as every inhabitant recognizes the supremacy of the Emperor and the Roman Catholic Church. Any current inhabitant who resists, Protestant, Socialist, Atheist, Democrat, Agnostic, Greenie will be branded a savage. If the inhabitants resist perhaps Germany can be partitioned. In your graciousness you might let them have Mecklinburg and Schleswig-Holstein.

And they invaded Israel and they lost. It happens. You get your ass kicked you suffer the consequences. They've lost, what? 3 times already. Where I come from is if someone invades you and you defeat them - they have no claim to the territory anymore.

They did? IIRC Israeli forces were already in occupation of parts of Palestine the day the partition went into effect. Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq declared war and invaded. None of those countries were Palestinian. Of those 5 three were led by monarchs appointed by Great Britain. In fact Jordan invaded primarily to collect the portion of Palestine given to it by Israel - sort of like Stalin being given the Baltic countries and East Poland by Hitler.

What are the other 2 times? 1956? The war in 1956 was over the Suez canal. Israel joined Britain and France in an attempt to return the canal to European control. It was a naked act of aggression on Israel's part. 1967? Israel struck first, no Palestinians involved, though Israel did wind up taking back the Palestinian territory it had "given" to Jordan and Egypt resulting in the current state of affairs. 1973? Involved Egypt and Israel and no one else.

[Dr Strangelove]

When are you going to admit that this is irrelevant? The Israelis ALREADY LIVE IN ISRAEL. What the **** would you have them do, idiot? Pack up and leave?

No, I want them to return to the only borders ever recognised by an international authority, the borders established by the Unitied Nations in 1948.

[Dr Strangelove]

How about when they shoot RPGs at school buses? How about when they blow up suicide bombs in shopping centers? Or do you conveniently not remember the second intifada?

Well, I suppose if I'm gonna pretend to have your ****ed up twisted logic, we could IMAGINE that the school bus MIGHT have been carrying troops that day, which means the Palestinians should just go ahead and blow it up, right?

So really neither is civilized right?

[Uncle Sparky]

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