In Any War Between The Civilized Man ....

[Hauldren Collider]

No, I want them to return to the only borders ever recognised by an international authority, the borders established by the Unitied Nations in 1948.

Great idea! Let's return to the indefensible borders that the Palestinians wouldn't accept then and won't accept now. AND let's force all the Jews out of Jerusalem, the capital AND LARGEST CITY of their country.

You are insane.

Considering that the international authority in question is the same one that calls zionism racist and constantly pumps out all manner of anti-semitic declarations and resolutions, why on earth should we listen to what they have to say? Why does an undemocratic body populated by tyrants and dictators have any moral authority?

[Hauldren Collider]

So really neither is civilized right?

No, I'd say the one that has democratic elections, allows women to learn to read, and believes in religious and political freedom is civilized.

[Hauldren Collider]

What are the other 2 times? 1956? The war in 1956 was over the Suez canal. Israel joined Britain and France in an attempt to return the canal to European control. It was a naked act of aggression on Israel's part. 1967? Israel struck first, no Palestinians involved, though Israel did wind up taking back the Palestinian territory it had "given" to Jordan and Egypt resulting in the current state of affairs. 1973? Involved Egypt and Israel and no one else.

1. 1963 was a pre-emptive strike against a blatantly obvious upcoming attack by the Arabs.
2. No, learn some history, dufus. 1973 saw HEAVY fighting along the Golan Heights. Israel was at risk of losing its entire north to the Syrians if they hadn't been able to stop their tanks. By the end of the war the Israelis were something like 25 miles from Damascus. It also involved troops and equipment from Iraq and Jordan and nominal or financial support from Tunisia and Algeria.

Dr. Strangelove, before you go on one of your anti-Israel tirades again, you might want to consider actually learning some of the history of the region. It appears you are grossly misinformed.

[Al B. Sure!]

Dr. Strangelove, before you go on one of your anti-Israel tirades again, you might want to consider actually learning some of the history of the region. It appears you are grossly misinformed.

This is rich.

[giblets]

No, I'd say the one that has democratic elections, allows women to learn to read, and believes in religious and political freedom is civilized.

Are we talking about the Taliban here? I thought we were talking about Palestine.

[Hauldren Collider]

Are we talking about the Taliban here? I thought we were talking about Palestine.

We are talking about Palestine. Do you think Gaza is a democracy? Do you think there is religious or political freedom in the West Bank?

[Al B. Sure!]

There has never been an unequivocally good nation ever. Even the United States has a shockingly flawed history and the passage of time will demonstrate more flaws currently.

This e-IDF behavior is sickening because it makes no acquiescence to Israel's obvious flaws; excesses by Israel are never once not justified. Rather than weigh the facts evenly and side with Israel out of what one could consider a reasonable comparison based on human rights, American strategic value, or whatever else, while putting pressure on the Jewish state to correct its transgressions, instead, a dichotomy is established between 'civilized' and 'savage'. Rather than viewing all participants as exhibiting a spectrum of certain US concerns, this false dividing line is created that is, beyond fundamentally wrong based on an analysis of facts and horridly biased, tinged with the complexion of prejudice.

It is our version of 'Death to America'; a clamor of hate-filled, reason-defying, peace-crushing, empathy-destroying brainlessness worthy of the most inflamed militant Islamist or the 19th century imperialist savages that terrorized the globe.


Of course we should be pro-Israel; just as we are pro-Egypt and pro-Jordan, two nations that we count as two of our few non-NATO allies; just as we are pro-Lebanon and should be Pro-Palestine. Peace should be our overwhelming priority in the region and peace should require no bias, no national preference, except to its own existence and promotion. Unequivocal support of Israel leaves no quarter for empathetic peace between all parties.

[onodera]

Holy crap, Al, that's a good post.

[notyoueither]

So you're saying that if the UK, France, Gremany, etc. just decided that it wanted to annex New Guinea and dump the natives into the sea that would be OK?

Hmmmmm.......... You know I seem to recall some country in Europe that made the same claim, i.e., savagery, about Jews some 70 years ago. They made the same claim about the Poles, the Czecks, the Russians.

Yes, it was about time for Godwin to show up, but you have to admit the subject of this thread just begged for it.

technically, it's not a Godwin when it is on point.

[C0ckney]

I would have them stop building settlements in the West Bank.

that and stop the collective punishment of the citizens of gaza. 62% of whom are now dependent on UN food aid.

[Uncle Sparky]

""In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man". I wonder how this would sound in German...

"Unterstützen Sie in jedem Krieg zwischen dem zivilisierten Menschen und der Savage die zivilisierten Menschen."

... and who the civilized man would have been and who would have been the savage? Propaganda is Fun!

[Fake Boris]

However politically incorrect it may seem now, the notion that random tribes in New Guinea were (and remain!) less civilized than, say, Western Europe, wasn't wrong.

The notion that Israel is more civilized than the Arab world in general also isn't wrong.

OK, define civilized.

[Ben Kenobi]

Of course we should be pro-Israel; just as we are pro-Egypt and pro-Jordan, two nations that we count as two of our few non-NATO allies; just as we are pro-Lebanon and should be Pro-Palestine. Peace should be our overwhelming priority in the region and peace should require no bias, no national preference, except to its own existence and promotion. Unequivocal support of Israel leaves no quarter for empathetic peace between all parties.

As well we should - but peace is only wanted by one side - Israel.

[C0ckney]

indeed. nothing says 'we want peace' like keeping most gaza on food aid and stealing ever more land in the west bank.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I guess British have to go back to the US and civilize those barbarrians. No other choice left