In Any War Between The Civilized Man ....

[C0ckney]

Ben, the ancestral home of the Jews is Ur of the Chaldees. You need to brush up on your biblical history.

it really never ceases to amaze me that ben teaches history.

[Aeson]

Aeson, Ben is saying that when people find out he's not a US citizen, he has to (not legally but out of friendly courtesy when someone, such as his friend, asks him) tell them he's Canadian. Once he's a US citizen, he'll never feel obligated to share this information since it'll never come up in conversation.

No, perhaps that is what he's trying to say ... but not what he said.

But if BK wants to admit he's trying to get US citizenship so he can lie to and mislead other Americans (or those in America), I would accept his clarification and pass it on to USCIS so that they can make an informed decision.

[Ben Kenobi]

You clearly used population as your metric for doing better.

I used two metrics - population (ie, more Muslim people choosing to live there), and economic development (Muslims have greater wealth and more opportunities inside Israel than outside.

But most egregiously, you stereotype all Muslims that live there as only caring about getting at the Jews wealth. You ignore all the other various reasons that people choose to live there. You're a disgusting human being.

Oh, you mind if I quote all the ones who say exactly that - that they want to exterminate the Jews and sweep them into the sea? They are killing the goose who laid the golden egg, and the worst part about it is that they are actually hurting their own people rather than helping.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, perhaps that is what he's trying to say ... but not what he said.

Hey, you're the mind reader here, Aeson.

pass it on to USCIS so that they can make an informed decision.

Oooh, that sounds like a threat. Am I supposed to be scared?

[Al B. Sure!]

Also, Arabs were out of Arabia almost as long ago as the Hebrew conquest of Canaan.

In fact, the first reference to 'Arab' occurs in a 9th century BC Assyrian monolith commemorating the Battle of Qarqar (853 BC) in modern-day Syria. Then, the Assyrians defeated an Arab contingent led by a king named Gindibu, an ally of Hadadezer, the ruler of the area around Damascus. Ahab of Israel was also at the battle on the side of Hadadezer.

[giblets]

They originated from Israel, Israel is their ancestral home. I believe that everyone should have their ancestral home where they are free to govern themselves. That includes the Jews and the Arabs. I believe the Arab's ancestral home is in Arabia, and the Jew's ancestral home is in Israel. They can coexist peacefully, but that means smacking around the punks until they finally get it.

I'm sorry you rejected the notion of individual rights and freedom for some new rule you made up on the spot to justify theft. If you really believe this maybe you should hand over your home to a Native American and **** off to Europe.

[Ben Kenobi]

In fact, the first reference to 'Arab' occurs in a 9th century BC Assyrian monolith commemorating the Battle of Qarqar (853 BC) in modern-day Syria. Then, the Assyrians defeated an Arab contingent led by a king named Gindibu, an ally of Hadadezer, the ruler of the area around Damascus. Ahab of Israel was also at the battle on the side of Hadadezer.

Are you disputing the point that Arabia is where the Arabians originate? They have their ancestral homeland and they are free and independent.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm sorry you rejected the notion of individual rights and freedom for some new rule you made up on the spot to justify theft. If you really believe this maybe you should hand over your home to a Native American and **** off to Europe.

I'd happily give up everything to a native american provided I got to choose who would receive everything.

[Aeson]

[QUOTE=Ben Kenobi;6154494]I used two metrics - population (ie, more Muslim people choosing to live there), and economic development (Muslims have greater wealth and more opportunities inside Israel than outside.]/quote]

No. You stated that Jews had more wealth, and the Muslims wanted to get it. Not that Muslims had more wealth. (The Jews want to be in Israel to get at Palestinian wealth?) You used population as the metric to judge how Muslims were doing in the area ... you didn't bother to mention all the all other (more useful) metrics.

You now want to add to that to say that Muslims are doing better economically. That will be true in some cases, false in others. (Someone who just had their house 'dozed probably isn't in such a great economic situation for instance.) Even with it your argument is rather absurd. The question isn't if Muslims in the area are doing better now than during the mandate ... people in most parts of the world will again be doing better economically than they were 60-90 years ago. You aren't allowing for the huge number of other inputs that have made this the general rule.

You are still missing a lot of other metrics, even going so far as ignoring them when they are brought up.

Oh, you mind if I quote all the ones who say exactly that - that they want to exterminate the Jews and sweep them into the sea? They are killing the goose who laid the golden egg, and the worst part about it is that they are actually hurting their own people rather than helping.

I would prefer if you stuck to reality. Not all Muslims want to exterminate the Jews. There are definitely some that do. They all don't want the Jew gold. There are other reasons for wanting to live in Palestine. You railed against my use of "only" ... yet you are the one who is addressing millions of people as if they all had the exact same motivations, ideology, and personality traits.

[regexcellent]

Just so everyone's clear, I don't think the Israelis deserve to keep their homes and defend them because of a 2000 year old cultural history, but rather because they happen to be there right now.

[giblets]

Just so everyone's clear, I don't think the Israelis deserve to keep their homes and defend them because of a 2000 year old cultural history, but rather because they happen to be there right now.

I agree completely.

[Al B. Sure!]

Are you disputing the point that Arabia is where the Arabians originate? They have their ancestral homeland and they are free and independent.

Where is the ancestral homeland of your Anglo-Saxon ancestors? It's not in America, Canada, or even the British Isles. Hell, the Germans didn't even migrate into modern-day Germany until around 1000 BC

[Guynemer]

Just so everyone's clear, I don't think the Israelis deserve to keep their homes and defend them because of a 2000 year old cultural history, but rather because they happen to be there right now.

You have become oddly reasonable lately. Or I have begun my slow, inevitable descent into Alzheimer's. One or the other.

[Aeson]

Hey, you're the mind reader here, Aeson.

No, only a great fool would say my semantic based argument is attempting to deal with anything other than the specific wording of your statements.

Oooh, that sounds like a threat. Am I supposed to be scared?

You probably shouldn't be scared of jokes, even ones at your expense. I was pointing out how the "clarification" that Al was offering was simply that you'd want to mislead your acquaintances about your past. It's strange you would fail to try to defend yourself from Al's attack on your character. Perhaps you are admitting you want to mislead Americans about your past? (<---mindreading for your enjoyment)

[Ben Kenobi]

You now want to add to that to say that Muslims are doing better economically.

I made that argument originally. You just don't want to concede this as it devastates your case.

Even with it your argument is rather absurd. The question isn't if Muslims in the area are doing better now than during the mandate ... people in most parts of the world will again be doing better economically than they were 60-90 years ago.

I stated before - one of the reasons why so many Muslims choose to live in Israel is because they are economically better - present day, to other muslim countries with fewer economic opportunities. Now, if you've got an argument against me - you're going to have to address the point I made, not the point you prefer I made.

There are definitely some that do.

And that is the point I am trying to drive home. Go back, read through. Did I ever say, "all Muslims believe X?" "muslims only believe X"? I did not. The reason being is because I know they are not a monolith. However, while there are still rockets dropping every day on the people of Israel - these barbarians need to be dealt with. Would you tolerate it if people were doing that to you and your house and your family and you were told by people who never lived in your situation - that they agreed with the people lobbing rockets into you and your family? I strongly suspect that your first response would be to protect them. You have the right to live in peace and in security - and so do the Jewish people in Israel.