I no longer believe in capitalism. At all.

[Ben Kenobi]

California is another popular destination. Do they have an income tax? Yes they do. So people must move there for the weather or because they get a job there.

California was and is an economic juggernaut of 30 million Americans. Takes a long time to overturn 120 years of good governance. They've lost about half their advantage over Texas in the last 30. Will take maybe another 20 years and you'll see Texas overtake California (something unthinkable), given all the advantages that California has had. Was a time when they were the nation's leader in most everything.

[Jon Miller]

No, we're talking about replacing the income tax with a consumption tax, moving from taxing wages to taxing spending. Rather than chasing after employers and making sure their workers are in compliance - you get the money when it comes out - to buy things. It's a much cheaper way of doing business, and the savings are enormous.

I am not so sure, my experience with countries which heavily use consumption taxes (in europe it is often over 20%) is that it drives the consumption to the black market. Why start a store to sell things when you can just have people visit and sell them something and not report it....

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

What does second vehicle have to do with it? If you have two vehicles I think you can get an additional discount. Insurance is just one example. You don't seem to know how to be poor. Poor people have to make smaller payments for many things which decreases their savings rate.

Wealthier people tend to pay more in insurance simply because they have more vehicles to insure and keep insured. Poor people are more likely to go without if they can get away with it. They are very unlikely to own a reliable vehicle.

Poor people do lots of things that make them poor and keep them poor. We haven't even got into the banking stuff yet.

[Ben Kenobi]

I am not so sure, my experience with countries which heavily use consumption taxes (in europe it is often over 20%) is that it drives the consumption to the black market. Why start a store to sell things when you can just have people visit and sell them something and not report it....

Europe has consumption + income taxes, don't they? They have a little of that here - but it's certainly not over 20 percent either.

[Kidlicious]

California was and is an economic juggernaut of 30 million Americans. Takes a long time to overturn 120 years of good governance. They've lost about half their advantage over Texas in the last 30. Will take maybe another 20 years and you'll see Texas overtake California (something unthinkable), given all the advantages that California has had. Was a time when they were the nation's leader in most everything.

The cost of living is much higher in California. You can't even find a place in some cities. The tax rate is not a significant reason why many people live there or not.

[Kidlicious]

I am not so sure, my experience with countries which heavily use consumption taxes (in europe it is often over 20%) is that it drives the consumption to the black market. Why start a store to sell things when you can just have people visit and sell them something and not report it....

JM

That already happens in the US with sales tax.

[Kidlicious]

Wealthier people tend to pay more in insurance simply because they have more vehicles to insure and keep insured. Poor people are more likely to go without if they can get away with it. They are very unlikely to own a reliable vehicle.

Poor people do lots of things that make them poor and keep them poor. We haven't even got into the banking stuff yet.

Do you realize that some rich people make over 500 times what poor people make? I don't care how many cars they have they are not going to pay the same tax rate as the poor. No way.

[Hauldren Collider]

And just as soon as Kuci and Jaguar finish possibly the most reasonable discussion of economics on poly ever, Ben and Kid come around and thread**** all over the place.

[Ben Kenobi]

Apparently it's ALLLLLLL about HC.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you realize that some rich people make over 500 times what poor people make? I don't care how many cars they have they are not going to pay the same tax rate as the poor. No way.

You're right. They'll pay more. You seem fixated on defending a tax policy that actually hurts the poor.

[Ben Kenobi]

The tax rate is not a significant reason why many people live there or not.

My former landlord and I had this very discussion as to why he left California and doesn't want to go back. Yes, the tax policy is a part of the high cost of living.

[Kidlicious]

You're right. They'll pay more. You seem fixated on defending a tax policy that actually hurts the poor.

WT...? Someone who makes over 500 times what someone else makes is going to pay a smaller rate.

[Kidlicious]

My former landlord and I had this very discussion as to why he left California and doesn't want to go back. Yes, the tax policy is a part of the high cost of living.

I'm sure he sold his house and bought a bigger one, but go on thinking it was because of the tax rate.

[Ben Kenobi]

WT...? Someone who makes over 500 times what someone else makes is going to pay a smaller rate.

States with higher income taxes see more people in poverty. If your goal is to make more poor people, and make those who are poor, even poorer, then raise income tax. Do you not realize that employers have to pay more to keep people when income taxes go up? They have higher hiring costs, and therefore, are less willing to hire people. Who bears the burden of that?

I'm sure he sold his house and bought a bigger one, but go on thinking it was because of the tax rate.

So you're telling me what my landlord said to me?

Next thing Kid will tell me what shoe I put on first this morning and what brand I wear.

[Kidlicious]

States with higher income taxes see more people in poverty. If your goal is to make more poor people, and make those who are poor, even poorer, then raise income tax.

That's just bad logic. Poor people are more likely to vote against their taxes being increased.

Do you not realize that employers have to pay more to keep people when income taxes go up? They have higher hiring costs, and therefore, are less willing to hire people. Who bears the burden of that?

You are the master of making very small factors into big significant factors. Yes, companies would save some money on payroll, but they would lose revenue with the increased cost of their products and services.

So you're telling me what my landlord said to me?

Next thing Kid will tell me what shoe I put on first this morning and what brand I wear.

It's not my fault if you think a slightly higher tax is more significant than making possibly 200k or so profit.