Thank you, labor unions ......

[snoopy369]

No, though it sounds like an interesting take (that I'd probably half agree with and half hate). I'm actually not a big fan of the standardized testing movement, despite my strongly favoring teachers being held accountable; teachers end up teaching to the test (and yes, they really do). My sister is an elementary music teacher (not in Chicago, thank goodness) and has been asked this year how she can contribute to the students having better test scores (there is no music test, unfortunately, or her kids would ace it - she's really good). Sigh.

Realistically it's very hard to have a solid metric for evaluating teacher performance, but that doesn't mean we can't combine _some_ testing (that is not solely ends-based, and is not written by a committee of bureaucrats, but instead actually measures things like critical thinking) with local, direct observation. I think local school boards can, and should, be able to hold their own teachers accountable; and it's not really the federal government's job to enforce that, except in explicitly obvious instances where they are truly failing (ie, Chicago). Even in Chicago they could, if not for the union's resistance... whether they would or not is another question.

After all, how many of us are graded on our job performance based on exams? Most of us are graded based on individualized targets (those that aren't working retail/etc., sorry for those who are) that are somewhat subjective (though sufficiently objective). S.M.A.R.T. goals and whatnot (Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant, Timely).

This is definitely one of those backwards political issues where the Democrats and the Republicans are on somewhat backwards sides... why does the GOP support federal standards pushed onto states while the Dems prefer to leave it alone? Bleck to both of you. Figure out a reasonable way to hold people accountable, have it be largely localized so different districts can adjust criteria/measurements/etc. to be appropriate to their local needs, and be done with it. Just make sure you're educating our students, and that every teacher is a part of that process instead of holding it up.

[dannubis]

McDonalds letting you work 85 hours in a week? Pure awesome. Do you know how many people out there want more hours and can't get them? How long would somebody have to do that before they earned enough money to get ahead? Not long at all.

You OTOH have not flipped burgers a day in your life because daddy payed the bills.

[Ben Kenobi]

This is definitely one of those backwards political issues where the Democrats and the Republicans are on somewhat backwards sides... why does the GOP support federal standards pushed onto states while the Dems prefer to leave it alone? Bleck to both of you. Figure out a reasonable way to hold people accountable, have it be largely localized so different districts can adjust criteria/measurements/etc. to be appropriate to their local needs, and be done with it. Just make sure you're educating our students, and that every teacher is a part of that process instead of holding it up.

Democrats are against it because they fear that poor unionized teachers would be fired if they were actually subject to scrutiny. I teach in the private sector, and every year we have our own metrics that are used to score teachers. If the students do poorly, the teacher is gone, no muss no fuss. The result is an excellent staff from top to bottom - everyone works hard, and best of all the students get what they really need, an education.

The real solution isn't testing, but vouchers. If you put the decision into the hands of the parents to choose whichever school they believe their children will do well - you are doing what you really want, making the decision local without compromising already high standards, or creating a federal bureaucracy. If the parents decide, then they have a far better allocation of scarce resources than either status quo. Put vouchers in, and you'll see exceptional teachers start to get rewarded for their hard work, because the schools will have to perform well or close.

[Ben Kenobi]

You OTOH have not flipped burgers a day in your life because daddy payed the bills.

You're right. I've never flipped burgers.

I treeplanted out in the bush. Worked from 4 am to 6pm, monday through friday, five on, one off. Paid my school off that way. Camped out in the bush. Good money, better than flipping burgers. Did that, did brushcutting for years. Straight commission against camp fees and transportation.

Do you know what brushcutting is? It's rather fun, I find it easier money than treeplanting.

After that job, I worked as a day shift delivery driver with the POS car I had until the head gasket blew. Again, straight commission against transportation costs. Worked from 10am to 8pm.

Then I worked as a travelling inventory clerk, and plenty of other jobs. This past three years is my second longest stint with an employer after planting.

Anything else you want to learn about me?

[Dinner]

Well, it is very obvious the US government is badly broken - are either parties proposing serious reform?

Not really though one has kind of sorta suggested a bit of half hearted reform of the filibuster but only if they win in the coming election (which they're not likely to do). The biggest dysfunctions are in the senate and how a single senator can put a hold on literally everything thus requiring a 60% vote to break the hold. Literally 90% of all legislation now gets a hold put on it or a filibuster put on it (and this is all done by the Republicans) so essentially nothing gets done.

If they'd eliminate holds and get rid of the 60% rule then things would get a lot better.

[Ben Kenobi]

Maybe California should execute all their republicans and things would change for the better.

[dannubis]

You're right. I've never flipped burgers.

I treeplanted out in the bush. Worked from 4 am to 6pm, monday through friday, five on, one off. Paid my school off that way. Camped out in the bush. Good money, better than flipping burgers. Did that, did brushcutting for years. Straight commission against camp fees and transportation.

Do you know what brushcutting is? It's rather fun, I find it easier money than treeplanting.

After that job, I worked as a day shift delivery driver with the POS car I had until the head gasket blew. Again, straight commission against transportation costs. Worked from 10am to 8pm.

Then I worked as a travelling inventory clerk, and plenty of other jobs. This past three years is my second longest stint with an employer after planting.

Anything else you want to learn about me?

Anything else you want to lie about ?

[Ben Kenobi]

Anything else you want to lie about ?

Well, according to the Kenobi haters club, I'm simultaneously poor and rich at the same time. I'm forever alone and have gay lovers every other night that I pick up on church grounds.

The truthses. It burrrrrns. It Hurtsesssss.

[dannubis]

Which one of you is speaking right now ?

[Jaguar]

There is ample evidence that BK is non-rich, and zero evidence that he is rich. Many of us, including DF and joncha, know BK in person. I've talked to him plenty, and I believe he was binding books for a living a few years ago.

Nobody has ever said he is rich except for you. It was a stupid, stupid assumption to make, but you could have just said "oh, my mistake" like a normal person. For example, I recently thought gribbler was a lawyer, but it turns out he was still in college. I must have misremembered.

Instead, you're sticking to your guns, which is ridiculous.

[dannubis]

Please find the exact quote where I say he is rich.

I said he lived off his family for the better part of his life and now was looking down on somone who didn't have the same luck (i.e. flipping burgers).

[Jaguar]

I'm still pretty sure he was binding books, not living off of his dad. You realize that he's been out of college for quite some time, right?

And he wasn't looking down on them either.

[Wezil]

Who the **** cares?

The only thing that matters re - Ben is his departure date.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Please find the exact quote where I say he is rich.

I said he lived off his family for the better part of his life and now was looking down on somone who didn't have the same luck (i.e. flipping burgers).

The larger point is why do you care? Just as Rah and Ming have diminished themselves by embroiling themselves in adhominem based disputes with Ben, now so do you. To what purpose?

[Lorizael]

The larger point is why do you care? Just as Rah and Ming have diminished themselves by embroiling themselves in adhominem based disputes with Ben, now so do you. To what purpose?

Rah and Ming are twice the man you'll ever be.