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  • #76
    Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
    That was why I got a summer job. The experience was far more valuable than the money. The money was nice, and I suspect most of my peers work for the money, but that doesn't change the fact that the training aspect is vastly more valuable.
    You are a spoilt little rich kid. The difference between you and a school leaver with no financial backing from their parents is literally worlds apart.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by kentonio View Post
      You are a spoilt little rich kid. The difference between you and a school leaver with no financial backing from their parents is literally worlds apart.
      I think you really don't understand my meaning. The experience you get from the **** McJobs is, in the end, more valuable than the money you make from the job itself because it enables you to get better jobs. This should be obvious. That doesn't mean the money is worthless.
      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
      ){ :|:& };:

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      • #78
        Originally posted by kentonio View Post
        UK Minimum wage was introduced in April 1999. The unemployment rate at the time was 1.77m. It then pretty much steadily held/fell to a low of 1.4m in Sept 2004. It then rose slightly before rising high with the financial crisis. Here's a BBC interactive chart showing you are wrong (yet again).

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117
        And you think the minimum wage was the primary cause of these unemployment figures? Minimum wage laws in the UK and US are weak enough to have only small effects on the margins, almost exclusively among teenagers. Your post proves nothing.

        In the US, minimum wage is essentially meaningless. Almost no one gets paid minimum wage--even I got slightly higher than it (by about 25 cents an hour) when I worked as a bag boy at a grocery store.
        If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
        ){ :|:& };:

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        • #79
          I Think there is good reason to ban unpaid internships.

          They are only something that the wealthy can afford (I couldn't, for example, although I got paid ones) and so give an advantage to coming from a wealthy background instead of a middleclass or poor.

          JM
          Jon Miller-
          I AM.CANADIAN
          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
            This is bull****.
            perhaps you'd like to back that up.

            (i have provided a lot of evidence about the UK minimum wage in previous threads on this subject.)

            That was why I got a summer job. The experience was far more valuable than the money. The money was nice, and I suspect most of my peers work for the money, but that doesn't change the fact that the training aspect is vastly more valuable.
            so you essentially agree with me when i said.

            i think you'll find that most people value the pay cheque more than the 'values' they get from flipping burgers or whatever.
            as jon pointed out, many people work minimum wage jobs to put food on the table, clothes on their backs and a roof over their heads. this is far more valuable than some nebulous idea of values.

            I can tell you that the unpaid internships in the DC area are exactly as Zevico is describing.
            that's nice. however, this statement fails to address the point i made and adds nothing to discussion.
            "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

            "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Jon Miller View Post
              I Think there is good reason to ban unpaid internships.

              They are only something that the wealthy can afford (I couldn't, for example, although I got paid ones) and so give an advantage to coming from a wealthy background instead of a middleclass or poor.

              JM
              Aahahahahaha

              We should ban all things that give the wealthy an advantage over the poor!

              "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK FOR FREE!" Ridiculous.
              If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
              ){ :|:& };:

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                I won't speak for the rest of the world, but in the US, if you are underpaid, you can always leave your job to find one that pays you properly. If you can't, then you aren't actually being underpaid. Market forces.

                This is probably the 100th time this very concept, and in fact this very example, has been explained to you on this forum.
                There are costs associated with leaving your job and taking up another one. Also, the difference between your marginal product at your current job and the marginal product you would have at a different one is not necessarily negligible. Of course we wouldn't go back to late 19th century conditions if we killed unions and labor standards, but that doesn't mean they can't help workers.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                  And you think the minimum wage was the primary cause of these unemployment figures? Minimum wage laws in the UK and US are weak enough to have only small effects on the margins, almost exclusively among teenagers. Your post proves nothing.
                  What are you talking about? C0ckney said that minimum wage has minimal effect on unemployment to which you called 'Bull****'. You're now saying that he was right?

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by C0ckney View Post
                    as jon pointed out, many people work minimum wage jobs to put food on the table, clothes on their backs and a roof over their heads. this is far more valuable than some nebulous idea of values.
                    There's nothing nebulous about saying "you work for a year at burger king, and having that on your resume will help you get a professional job when you graduate high school".
                    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                    ){ :|:& };:

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by kentonio View Post
                      What are you talking about? C0ckney said that minimum wage has minimal effect on unemployment to which you called 'Bull****'. You're now saying that he was right?
                      A minimum wage law will have massive effects on unemployment if it is actually higher than the bottom tier wages. Most minimum wage laws with serious effects are actually mandated benefits, a great example being Obamacare.
                      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                      ){ :|:& };:

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                        A minimum wage law will have massive effects on unemployment if it is actually higher than the bottom tier wages. Most minimum wage laws with serious effects are actually mandated benefits, a great example being Obamacare.
                        You can of course provide some evidence to backup your claim that the minimum wages did not raise the bottom tier of wages? I assume you're trying to base your entire position on 'stuff I've seen in my summer jobs'?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                          There's nothing nebulous about saying "you work for a year at burger king, and having that on your resume will help you get a professional job when you graduate high school".
                          Dear lord..

                          You do realize that the vast majority of minimum wage workers are grown ups who are feeding families, not just high school kids making money to go out drinking with right?

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                          • #88
                            Actually, if the population is at or near full employment, I expect minimum wage can move some 'wealth' from the capitalists to the poor, with minimal effect on unemployment.

                            JM
                            Jon Miller-
                            I AM.CANADIAN
                            GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                              Aahahahahaha

                              We should ban all things that give the wealthy an advantage over the poor!

                              "YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK FOR FREE!" Ridiculous.
                              Yes, we should indeed make sure the children of the poor have the same career opportunities as the children of the wealthy, assuming equal talent. That's why, for example, we should have public education available to all children.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                                There's nothing nebulous about saying "you work for a year at burger king, and having that on your resume will help you get a professional job when you graduate high school".
                                my original post was in response to this.

                                Fact is that most minimum wage jobs are for youths. For youths this means instilling values like hard work and reliability. That's more valuable than the actual paycheck.
                                that seems pretty nebulous compared to having food or somewhere to live.

                                if zevico had said something like what you said above, then i would have had less of a problem with it. excepting the point that jon made.
                                "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                                "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                                Comment

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