Catholic church condones child rape and is against the abortion that will save her life

[Dr Strangelove]

I would be very happy to see them go back to what they used to do, where men and women in difficult constraints could simply leave children with the Church, and the Church would care for them. It used to be like that, you could leave a child, and no questions asked.

I agree with you that those arguing in favor of abortion restrictions should be giving women a way out of raising children when faced with hardships. I think it could be done, and done quite well.

Uhmmmm..... Errrrrr........ The Republic of Ireland tried letting the Roman Catholic Church run their facilities for children "in care" up until about 20 years ago. Do we need to go into details again?

[Ben Kenobi]

Uhmmmm..... Errrrrr........ The Republic of Ireland tried letting the Roman Catholic Church run their facilities for children "in care" up until about 20 years ago. Do we need to go into details again?

Abuse rates were and are far lower than the teachers in the teachers union. Might want to take the plank out of your own eye. Yes, abuse does happen. Yes, abuse should be prosecuted. No, abuse is not sufficient to prevent them from carrying out their ministry (after weeding out the bad apples).

[Ben Kenobi]

"He" isn't the one reporting evidence, it's the reporter who's doing that. The reporter tells us that the girl was 9, pregnant, in pain and that the abortion was done to save her life. No medical diagnosis of the cause of the pain was given. Was pregnancy the only diagnosis given? In Brazil it's still illegal to provide an abortion except in the case of rape or if the mother's life is in danger. We're told that the reason given was danger to the mother's life, that would require a medical diagnosis, but the report doesn't provide it. That is my point. You're saying that there wasn't a valid medical reason for the abortion, I'm saying we don't have enough information. Bring me the medical record.

I'm saying that those making unsubstantiated claims that her life was truly in danger are required to provide medical evidence substantiating their claim. They have not. Arguing that I have to do your homework for you is not going to fly.

Like I said - first do no harm. You want to operate on the girl, great, provide medical evidence in support of the abortion. No evidence? No abortion.

[Ben Kenobi]

overwhelming majority are going to be 13 and 14 year olds and a tiny portion are going to be 10 or 11 unless the study was designed in a way to equalize the ages which given the tiny number of pregnant 10 and 11 year olds, which would be quite burdensome.

Tiny or no - this is still insufficient evidence to prove your assertion that a differential exists. All this does is establish bounds on how large the error margin could be, not the actual numbers.

[-Jrabbit]

Stayed away from this thread for awhile, for the obvious reasons. I'm a little sad to admit I just read through about 7 or 8 pages. Some interesting stuff, but for all the wrong reasons. Unblvbl. I'll be leaving again after this post.

1. A Brazilian doctor is required to determine the mother's life is in danger in order to recommend abortion. Said doctor recommends a medical abortion.
Logical inference: Doctor found substantial evidence of a life-threatening medical condition.
Beniverse inference: Because the doctor's medical diagnosis is not stated in the article, the life-threatening condition did not exist.

2. Dr Strangelove states that (a) pregnancies at age 9 are extremely rare, and (b) he has treated several thousand newborns and has never encountered a mother younger than 12.
Logical inference: Age-9 pregnancies are indeed rare.
Beniverse inference: My view is unsupported; Doc S. is probably a liar.

I still think odds are on that he should have seen at least a few girls younger than 12 with several thousand women. But, I can't confirm my suspicions at this point.

3. Ben Kenobi believes that "published" means "credible."
Which is the functional equivalent of saying "under oath" means "it must be true."

4. Several others here believe that "bylined" means "written by."
I can provide myriad examples of my commissioned work being published in print magazines (and online) under someone else's byline. In this area, I agree with Ben: as long as the check clears, I'm cool with that.

5. I found out WTF the MRT avatar is. That *almost* made the rest the read worthwhile.

[Ben Kenobi]

I can provide myriad examples of my commissioned work being published in print magazines (and online) under someone else's byline. In this area, I agree with Ben: as long as the check clears, I'm cool with that.

Exactly so. Thanks JR!

[Dr Strangelove]

I'm saying that those making unsubstantiated claims that her life was truly in danger are required to provide medical evidence substantiating their claim. They have not. Arguing that I have to do your homework for you is not going to fly.

Like I said - first do no harm. You want to operate on the girl, great, provide medical evidence in support of the abortion. No evidence? No abortion.

Well then you're just going to have to go get her medical records because the newspaper isn't obliged to publish them. Remember, every word devoted to providing news takes up space that could have been devoted to a revenue providing ad.

[Dr Strangelove]

Abuse rates were and are far lower than the teachers in the teachers union. Might want to take the plank out of your own eye. Yes, abuse does happen. Yes, abuse should be prosecuted. No, abuse is not sufficient to prevent them from carrying out their ministry (after weeding out the bad apples).

Abuse of what type, which country, and during which years? Also, did the teacher's union cover up the crimes?

[rah]

Whenever Ben brings that up I have to laugh. Well a few teachers abused kids so you can't rag about the Catholic priests. Ridiculous. Don't forget the couple of Boy scout troop leaders or that College football coach. No organization has systematically protected and covered it up as much as the Catholic Church. Arguing otherwise is silly. Unless you live in benland, of course.

[Dr Strangelove]

Tiny or no - this is still insufficient evidence to prove your assertion that a differential exists. All this does is establish bounds on how large the error margin could be, not the actual numbers.

The very fact that the group of pregnant girls between ages 10 and 11 is a very small subset of the larger group of pregnancies between ages 10 to 14 argues that they are a unique group and ought to be examined separately.

[Elok]

To be fair, Rah, the RCC is a much, much larger organization than the Boy Scouts of America or Penn State.

[rah]

Oh I agree, but Ben keeps trotting out that teachers seem to get a pass and that we're concentrating on RCC. That is such bullcrap. No one has given teaches, the Boy Scouts or Penn State a pass.
Since the RCC is much larger, they're are targeted more often. Especially since Ben spews out so much garbage about the holiness of the RCC. It's just too easy of a target.

[Ming]

To be fair, Rah, the RCC is a much, much larger organization than the Boy Scouts of America or Penn State.

To be fair... the RCC is a religious organization that supposedly provides a moral compass for it's members. And yes, abuse can happen in all walks of life, but it was the systematic cover up by the organization itself that makes it far worse. And we aren't just talking about a few isolated cases.

[Elok]

I'm aware of that, Ming. I was merely reminding Rah that, being a much larger organization, it is to be expected that they would have a larger problem with perverts and thus more to cover up in the first place. As I said, to be fair. I have no interest in arguing in detail over the moral culpability of a church I never belonged to in a scandal I didn't follow all that closely in the first place.

[Ming]

I'm aware of that... I was merely reminding you that the RCC situation is worse since it is a religious group that supposedly is against sin... and when confronted with it, covered up the sins instead of doing something about it.