Obamacare

[Jon Miller]

Used to be a perfectly acceptable alternative known as the HSA's wherein a year or so of pre tax contribution allowed one to save up in case high deductibles needed to be met by a catastrophic event. Those plans don't typically meet the new mandated insurance requirements.

I don't know if I know of anyone who knew of HSAs.

I know I didn't, but I have always had good benefits.

JM
(excluding a couple of months in this last year)

[DaShi]

HSA's don't do much for the lower income groups being discussed here. In fact, they extremely favor high income earners.

[Tupac Shakur]

HSAs are a great innovation, but they're probably in trouble, as Ogie pointed out.

A new Obama administration rule could drive out of the market the low-cost, high deductible plans that are supposed to be available under ObamaCare. That would likely mean a sharp jump in taxpayer subsidies.

http://news.investors.com/article/594079/201112071853/obamacare-rule-hits-hsa-high-deductible-plans.htm

[Jon Miller]

HSA's don't do much for the lower income groups being discussed here. In fact, they extremely favor high income earners.

They definitely sound like something that only high income earners would know about anyways.

It seems like the tax breaks/etc were regressive too, increasing the cost (Relative) for low income groups.

JM
(A lot of the problems with it are ones that will be in any capitalist solution, and are problems in SA. It is some of the reason I favor the socialist approach, and think it is far better. The capitalist approach would still be better than our current mess.)

[Tupac Shakur]

DaShi is wrong. HSAs are most appealing to young, healthy individuals who would prefer to go uninsured rather than pay the exorbitant premiums associated with more gold-plated healthcare plans. They soon won't have the option of going uninsured or buying an affordable high-deductible HSA plan, however, thanks to Obamacare. Yet another win for the insurance companies, medical lobbies, and the old...

[Jon Miller]

Yeah, Obamacare seems to be just more of the same mess.

JM

[DaShi]

I see, so we're throwing risk pooling out the window. Insurance was always a scam to begin with.

[Tupac Shakur]

Yeah, Obamacare seems to be just more of the same mess.

The formulation of Obamacare was taken over quite early by special interest lobbying from the insurance and medical industries, so it's not surprising that the final result would screw over the public. The Democrats get to say that they passed universal healthcare, however, which is all they really cared about in the end.

[DaShi]

Which is still a step better than how the system was.

[Tupac Shakur]

No, it isn't. Obamacare takes the ****ty current system, amplifies its problems, and then "fixes" everything by forcing the young and healthy to pay for the lavish benefits given to the old and unhealthy.

It's bad enough that we already have to pay for Warren Buffet's Medicare, but now we're going to have to pay for his secretary's healthcare, too.

[Jon Miller]

I see, so we're throwing risk pooling out the window. Insurance was always a scam to begin with.

The current options are not 'risk pooling' at all, nor are they really insurance.

A HSA plan, if it was implemented properly, is exactly insurance and is what most people should take (heathly, young, poor).

Yes, that means that old sick people would need to pay more, considering how much healthcare they receive I think this is a good idea.

Maybe then they will decide a nice mechanical prosthetic for 3k instead of a robotic prosthetic for 50k. Or maybe they will take medication to ease their pain instead of taking 200+k for expensive surgeries to add a year or two to their life while 34 yearold women can't afford insurance in case she gets tumors.

JM

[Tupac Shakur]

A HSA plan, if it was implemented properly, is exactly insurance and is what most people should take (heathly, young, poor).

Yes, that means that old sick people would need to pay more, considering how much healthcare they receive I think this is a good idea.

QFT

[DaShi]

The current options are not 'risk pooling' at all, nor are they really insurance.

That's where the mandate comes in. But really it's mostly the poor who "opt out" in the current system because they simply can't afford the premiums. This is why the mandate may not actually improve the system. But for that, you'll need to ask the expert analysts on what is more likely, because the theorists can make claims for either side.

A HSA plan, if it was implemented properly, is exactly insurance and is what most people should take (heathly, young, poor).

Yes, that means that old sick people would need to pay more, considering how much healthcare they receive I think this is a good idea.

I don't. Old and sick are generally lower income earners, which itself feeds into poor health. It will just exacerbate a vicious cycle.

[DaShi]

I feel like Drake and I are fighting over Jon's soul in this thread.

[Tupac Shakur]

DaShi's worldview makes complete sense if you make the idiotic assumption that the old are less wealthy than the young. In actuality, however, the American healthcare system is extremely regressive and about to become more so once Obamacare takes effect.