Obamacare

[DaShi]

I'm referring to the poor in general, old and young, who won't benefit from HSAs and may actually be hurt by them.

[Jon Miller]

The young poor, as long as the HSA are not set up with regressive benefits (which the current ones might have), would love to have HSAs.

Well, they would also have to know about them.

JM

[DaShi]

Why? They won't benefit from the tax breaks, they'll have a higher deductible, and god forbid if they fall into a category known for higher prevalence of early onset chronic diseases.

[Tupac Shakur]

I'm referring to the poor in general, old and young, who won't benefit from HSAs and may actually be hurt by them.

The "poor in general" aren't affected by HSAs and Obamacare in a uniform fashion. The young poor benefit from HSAs and are hurt by Obamacare because they're generally healthier and likely won't get their money's worth from the expensive, gold-plated healthcare insurance called for by Obamacare, making HSAs a better option for them. The old poor, on the other hand, benefit from Obamacare and not HSAs because they're generally less healthy and would pay more in premiums for their gold-plated healthcare if the young weren't forced to buy the same insurance by Obamacare and were able to opt out of subsidizing them by using HSAs.

[kentonio]

No I wouldn't because I'm not a moron.

I think you should go back and reread everything you've ever posted and then come back and try again.

The money that goes back into the economy doesn't necessarily go towards products made using minimum wage labor. In other words, a minimum wage could make it easier for skilled workers to get jobs but more difficult for unskilled workers to get jobs.

Except that those skilled workers then use other services and products with require lower skilled workers and products. I.E. trickle down that actually works.

[regexcellent]

HC is correct in his opposition to the minimum wage. I'm pretty sure even Paul Krugman thinks it's a dumb idea (or at least he did, back when he was a real economist and not an unusually credentialed pundit for the New York Times). And yes, the reason the minimum wage is dumb is identical to the reason the employer insurance mandate is dumb. The difference is that the price of the minimum wage is so small as to be negligible whereas the insurance mandate is not.

[Jon Miller]

For my healthcare in the US I always had excellent healthcare coverage (There might have been a 1 month gap once?).

I don't think I got out of it what I put in, despite being a bigger consumer than most people my age (who aren't doing crazy stuff/etc).

In 2003 I got high blood pressure problems, which had several doctor visits (including a couple non-ER emergency visits).

In 2004 I started a new doctor. He wasn't so good, and barely did the minimal the one time I needed him to do something. But he did do many tests every 3 months (every test he could think to do, I think). The reason why I think he wasn't good is that despite all the tests he barely took me off the beta blockers when I started having troubles due to no longer needing treatment for high blood pressure (due to lifestyle changes).

Which gives me my third doctor. I started visiting him after an ER visit (which I actually did end up paying a lot for, despite one of the best health insurances). Initially there were many problems that I think were related to coming off the medication/fainting and which doctors were not consistently reproducible. These caused many tests, and I am glad for them. But my iron levels didn't go up, and so he had me tested and retested and tested again.

Despite all this healthcare I consumed (Between the ages of 22? and 29), at most in one year did I actually get more healthcare (based on our outrageous healthcare costs) than I paid in. Probably not.

And yes, the big issues like tumors take a lot of money. But still, we pay an enormous amount and could pay a lot less (And still be covered for tumors/fainting/etc).

JM

[Tupac Shakur]

Combining high-deductible catastrophic insurance with HSAs is a pretty effective way of bringing down healthcare expenditures, which is probably why the medical industry wants to be rid of them.

The Rise of Consumer-Driven Care

ObamaCare vs. Consumer-Driven Care

[MrFun]

At the expense of somebody else, due to her unbelievable irresponsibility. **** her.

Everyone has the right to life.

[MrFun]

Health insurance is so expensive in the US (with so few options) that if people were "responsible" as you put it, they wouldn't take incomes above 130% (or whatever it is) of the poverty level until they were up above 250% or so.

Health insurance costs ~13k per year.

Poverty level is ~14k per year (more for a family of 3).

Without benefits, and including taxation + some an additional factor due to the higher income, it would be better to be poverty level than make ~30k per year without benefits.

A lot of people make less than 30k a year without benefits.

Yes, if you are going to die it suddenly becomes worth everything, even the food you have. But you shouldn't argue that she should be paying ~50% of her income on the off chance that she gets a life threatening illness. That would stop her from improving her life, as well as enjoying fruits of her labor.

JM

[MrFun]

A lot of people who don't have health insurance can afford it. The concept of this being about getting health care for poor people is misguided. Medicaid actually does cover healthcare for people who genuinely cannot afford it.

Fundamentally what obamacare does is make health care an entitlement for the middle class, when the middle class by definition is not in need of entitlements. It is not and has never been about the poor.

I'm a single male in good health, who is under employed (working for low wages) and I cannot afford to get health insurance. You're saying I would qualify for Medicaid?

[Jon Miller]

According to HC you don't care about your health, really, and so deserve to die if you get a serious illness.

JM

[C0ckney]

it never ceases to amaze me that americans are still having this debate in 2012.

[Kidlicious]

According to HC you don't care about your health, really, and so deserve to die if you get a serious illness.

JM

His alternative reason is that it's ok to let one person die to save another person.

[Tupac Shakur]

I'm a single male in good health, who is under employed (working for low wages) and I cannot afford to get health insurance. You're saying I would qualify for Medicaid?

You might qualify for Medicaid; check it out. You would also be able to afford health insurance if your current Medicare contribution went to your own needs instead, but old people are more important than the young.