Bush Was Even Worse for the Debt than Obama

[DanS]

Everybody's fighting over scraps. The US needs to adjust its spending on the order of $10 trillion over the next 10 years.

[Dinner]

It doesn't have to be nearly that big as long as he economy is growing. I'd personally settle for a $500 billion combo of cuts and tax increases right now and hold spending down unless it's paygo. Combine that and a growing economy and we'll balance the budget over time. The real problem is some people, mostly with the letter R after their names, live in a fantasy world where they think you never have to pay for tax cuts because they always pay for themselves (as opposed to reality where they almost never pay for themselves except in extremely rare situation) so we literally have some of these idiots running for President claiming taxes should be zero and that some how everything will get paid for. Yeah, Bachman claimed taxes should be zero, as in no one should pay anything at all, but some how that would balance the budget. WTF? You can't negotiate with stupid.

[DanS]

I disagree and incorporate by reference all of the criticisms leveled against you by Tupac.

[Dinner]

And I retort that you're unrealistic to the point of being stupid. A 1/3rd cut to the budget would never in a million years pass anything so why not just go whole hog and claim you'd cut 2/3rds or even 3/3rds of the budget? Those are just as likely as your stupid claim. To compare my goal is actually reachable especially if we just let the Bush tax cuts retire, trim the bloated military budget, kill farm subsidies, and let medicare negotiate the price of drugs.

[giblets]

Everybody's fighting over scraps. The US needs to adjust its spending on the order of $10 trillion over the next 10 years.

Isn't the debt supposed to be $22 trillion by 2020? Why the **** would we need it to be as low as $12 trillion by 2020?

[DanS]

Because that's the upper end of what is a healthy debt level. Over the last few years, we have run up the equivalent of a WW2 war debt.

[Dinner]

Man, giving away tax cuts without off setting spending cuts wasn't a good idea after all, huh? Just like waging two foreign wars while cutting taxes (the first time in history we went to war but cut taxes instead of raising them to pay for the war) wasn't a good idea even though Bush & Cheney said deficits don't matter. Gee, maybe we should end those expensive foreign wars and restore the sane tax rates of the 1990's?

[Guynemer]

I want to disagree with Oerdin, just on principle, but... he's not entirely wrong there.

We need to stop fighting wars willy-nilly.

[Elok]

Don't worry, we won't think less of you for thinking unnecessary wars are wasteful. It's pretty much what all of us were thinking. Even though Libya turned out better than I expected. Maybe it'll be a horrible mess, but it won't be OUR horrible mess since we never went in on foot. We're getting better at this belligerence thing.

[Tupac Shakur]

EDIT: note that I have no problem with redistribution per se. I would simply like to have it done in an efficient way (via cash transfers) and to have an open discussion about what we're doing when we do it.

[DaShi]

You really don't know much about Paul Ryan's plan do you? It cuts benefits to wealthy Americans, and actually doesn't involve tax reform at all. All it does is reduce handouts to the upper and middle class and implement a slight variation on vouchers in order to control costs. That's hardly leaving them to fend for themselves.

Where in his plan does it do this?

[DaShi]

I disagree and incorporate by reference all of the criticisms leveled against you by Tupac.

This is about the extent of analysis I've seen you post on this forum.

[Tupac Shakur]

Here’s a message to Washington politicians: duck.

Your failure is now complete. You were faced with a generational challenge to save Americans from the type of collapse European countries are now facing and you blinked. Actually, you did worse.

Instead of eradicating a historic threat that could have been solved by simple math, you ran for cover and appointed a self-described “supercommittee” to make all of your tough decisions. Unfortunately for your political careers, there was nothing “super” about that feckless collection of politicians. In fact, they appeared to be even less imaginative and inspiring than the whole lot of you.

Watching them all trot their tired lines out on the Sunday talk shows made me sick. Democrats were blabbing on about hiking taxes and Republicans were prattling on about slashing spending. Both were accusing the other side of intransigence while standing in a block of ideological cement.

How pathetic.

Democrats know that spending has exploded under President Barack Obama at an unprecedented pace. They know that Medicare, Medicaid and other entitlement programs are going to die without massive reform. They know that just taxing the 1 percent will do next to nothing over the next generation to break the cycle of debt.

But they don’t have the guts to do what is right. They don’t have the courage to risk their careers to save America.

Republicans are no better.

GOP leaders lack the guts to tackle entitlement reform. The Republican presidential frontrunner called Rep. Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan “radical social engineering from the right” while 70 percent of self-described tea party members told pollsters they don’t want their Medicare touched. Meanwhile, the rest of the party fights the type of real tax reform that will put middle-class Americans on a level playing field with billionaires like Warren Buffett. And instead of channeling Teddy Roosevelt by breaking up the Wall Street banks that almost broke our economy, they drone on about class warfare while telling protesters to take a bath.

How about offering up a slice of cake at the same time, boys?

What it means for politicians is another chaotic campaign cycle, with one incumbent after another getting chased from power. What it means for America is much worse.

Our leaders are unworthy of our trust. They have no moral authority to lead. The president is weak and not up to the task of running the White House. Congress is even worse, with an approval rating mired in single digits.

If the cavalry is coming, it better ride in from the West quick. We’re in a hell of a mess and thanks to Washington’s bumbling, I fear it is all going to get much worse.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/68876.html#ixzz1eURxIzFG

Joe

[DanS]

This is about the extent of analysis I've seen you post on this forum.

Your opinion of my analysis is of no consequence.

Probably best for you to just put me on ignore.

[Aeson]

Meanwhile, the rest of the party fights the type of real tax reform that will put middle-class Americans on a level playing field with billionaires like Warren Buffett. And instead of channeling Teddy Roosevelt by breaking up the Wall Street banks that almost broke our economy, they drone on about class warfare while telling protesters to take a bath.

Is this really what Tupac just thumbs-upped?