Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How famous are Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi in the USA?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I honestly don't get the distinction you're trying to make here. I mean, on the one hand, you have all the adults and children in your community and their attitudes influencing you, and on the other you have some words you repeat once a school day, and you think the words were a really important factor in shaping your character? That chimes with nothing in my experience with myself, with other children, or with children I have known as an adult.

    WRT prayer, hopefully this won't turn into yet another religion bash-a-thon, but if it will it's probably already too late so why not. Stand-up-and-witness events such as you describe definitely do not happen for us; the description you give sounds very protestant (i.e., alien) to me. I can't think of any analogous experience, either. The Divine Liturgy is indeed repetitive, but it's quite easy to drift off during it or during personal prayers, which are of the same general type--of course, the liturgy takes about an hour and a half, minimum, while daily prayers are around five minutes. But even the short little pledge is vulnerable to the same distraction: since the words are well-known, the lips rattle them off on autopilot while the mind thinks about anything and everything else. It's something one has to make a conscious effort not to do--even then, the effort is rarely effective, which is why we're told to make our distraction during prayer a subject for prayer itself--and I never saw any reason to make the effort with the pledge. I don't think the words I don't even pay attention to as I say them are having some hidden effect on my psyche.

    Indeed, the prayers that do have the most effect on me are the ones I don't hear constantly--the seasonal songs, the parts the priest says quietly so you only hear them when you stand near the altar, and especially the midnight Paschal service. The Liturgy is made beautiful to draw people in, and it is marvelous if it's done with a good choir, but I don't have any kind of communal Zen experience such as you describe (we Orthodox, as a general rule, have a deep distrust of strong feelings). I'm pretty sure other people/children don't either, except in a temporary, evanescent way for new converts or for exceptional moments of grace. We're often reminded that "liturgy" means something like "work of the people." We're there to work at paying tribute to God. They made it nice for Him, and also to lighten the load for us a bit, but it's a job for us to work at. Also, nearly everything about the worship was specifically made to be instructive in a pre-literate society, so it's hard to say we're supposed to simply mouth and absorb passively.

    Now, there is the Jesus Prayer...but that is specifically meant to be said with many, many repetitions, in solitude, stillness and silence, or the closest we can get to it, with the eyes closed. It's also not really meant for children. Kind of a complicated subject to get into, and I think dinner is imminent, so I'll leave it at that for now.
    1011 1100
    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Elok View Post
      I honestly don't get the distinction you're trying to make here.
      I'm not making the distinction, you are divorcing the method from the intent and pretending that because the method is a result of intent the method thus has no effect.

      I mean, on the one hand, you have all the adults and children in your community and their attitudes influencing you, and on the other you have some words you repeat once a school day, and you think the words were a really important factor in shaping your character?
      It was an important factor in my views of the JW kid (negatively) and of my classmates at the time. Without the pledge the JW kid would never have been identified as a commie. I had no other instances of reinforcing my views of the country with my friends either.

      That chimes with nothing in my experience with myself, with other children, or with children I have known as an adult.
      It's simply a form of peer pressure and reinforcing a group mentality. You get enough kids doing it, most of the rest will follow and accept it. (You get enough kids not doing it, or mocking it... the reverse happens.)

      Comment


      • Okay, I still have no clue what you're talking about. I think this is the "just drop it" stage.
        1011 1100
        Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

        Comment


        • Asher must have put you on ignore.
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

          Comment


          • Originally posted by MikeH View Post
            Even the brightest minds can be indoctrinated by simple techniques. See The Third Wave classic experiment.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave
            That's something very different. If anything you helped elok's case.
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

            Comment


            • No.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Lorizael View Post
                I always used to play the Soviets in Red Alert. My father once told me he didn't approve, but I'm pretty sure he was joking.
                Soviets had badass tanks. Allies had cruisers with the blind gunners.
                John Brown did nothing wrong.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Felch View Post
                  Soviets had badass tanks. Allies had cruisers with the blind gunners.
                  You just had to make sure that cruiser destroyed the construction yard before your enemy had air a navy. After that you parked it in the corner of the map and let the blind gunners shoot.
                  Graffiti in a public toilet
                  Do not require skill or wit
                  Among the **** we all are poets
                  Among the poets we are ****.

                  Comment


                  • Elok, I don't think we're going to agree entirely on this, but it was nice to be able have a relatively civilised and sensible discussion about it.
                    Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                    Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                    We've got both kinds

                    Comment


                    • Sure thing, and likewise
                      1011 1100
                      Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

                      Comment


                      • Get a room.
                        Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                        "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

                        Comment


                        • I'm not sure how placing someone on ignore when you can't refute their argument is civil or sensible.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment


                          • Well, if the alternative was beating you to a bloody pulp... :shrug:
                            Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                            "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

                            Comment


                            • Hey, this thread was about Ronaldo and Messi with a little bit of Courtney Love... then it was a little bit about Tim Tebow... how did it turn into a discussion about the pledge of allegiance, social conditioning, and Comand & Conquer: Red Alert?

                              "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                              "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                              Comment


                              • Asher will turn any discussion into America-bashing.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X