Greatest Sect of Christianity

[Kidlicious]

I honestly think you've just taken what you've read in the Bible and reshaped it to fit your preconceived ideas about the world. It says not to be conformed to The World, but The World and The Church are two different things in Christian thought. The Apostles were trying to set up a body of believers with a single, unified creed; that is to say, they demanded a certain level of conformity.

Also, the truly proud are rarely conformists. The vain, generally so, but if you want to see real pride, look at Hitler, or Stalin, or Genghis Khan. They were fiercely independent and unique individuals who made others conform to them. And I should note that vanity is generally considered far less dangerous than true pride by the Fathers, for precisely the reason that it is "conformist"; a vain man at least cares about others to the extent that he molds himself to their expectations. Kind of like the bit in Tolkien where Sauron is less evil than Morgoth only in that, for a time, he served someone other than himself.

I'm not saying I don't have preconcieved notions which effect how I interpret the Bible, everyone does. We have different experiences that come from God to make us who we are. When I see the Church I see the world. They are mostly herd animals (I mean in their mentality). They're mostly concerned with how they appear to the others. I mean this is why they don't understand the Bible, because they largely don't understand that it's intended to teach one to conform to christ not to this world. They just don't have a clue what that means. And I'm talking about the ministers and all the leaders as well.

Well Stalin and Hitler were the ultimate conformists. Sure they forced others to conform to them but that's because they loved to have power over others. A true nonconformist doesn't need the things of this world like power and money. Only the conformist needs those things because he has no faith in God. He has no idea what joy it is to be a self.

[Kidlicious]

I honestly think you've just taken what you've read in the Bible and reshaped it to fit your preconceived ideas about the world. It says not to be conformed to The World, but The World and The Church are two different things in Christian thought. The Apostles were trying to set up a body of believers with a single, unified creed; that is to say, they demanded a certain level of conformity.

Also, the truly proud are rarely conformists. The vain, generally so, but if you want to see real pride, look at Hitler, or Stalin, or Genghis Khan. They were fiercely independent and unique individuals who made others conform to them. And I should note that vanity is generally considered far less dangerous than true pride by the Fathers, for precisely the reason that it is "conformist"; a vain man at least cares about others to the extent that he molds himself to their expectations. Kind of like the bit in Tolkien where Sauron is less evil than Morgoth only in that, for a time, he served someone other than himself.

I'm not saying I don't have preconcieved notions which effect how I interpret the Bible, everyone does. We have different experiences that come from God to make us who we are. When I see the Church I see the world. They are mostly herd animals (I mean in their mentality). They're mostly concerned with how they appear to the others. I mean this is why they don't understand the Bible, because they largely don't understand that it's intended to teach one to conform to christ not to this world. They just don't have a clue what that means. And I'm talking about the ministers and all the leaders as well.

Well Stalin and Hitler were the ultimate conformists. Sure they forced others to conform to them but that's because they loved to have power over others. A true nonconformist doesn't need the things of this world like power and money. Only the conformist needs those things because he has no faith in God. He has no idea what joy it is to be a self.

[Kidlicious]

I haven't read one of his posts. I thought for sure it was loinburger.

[Kidlicious]

But you don't even understand what the term "Word" refers to! You appear to be willfully ignoring the correct definition, and discarding the opinions of holy men from thousands of years simply out of an unjustified and frankly paranoid belief that they're all out to screw you. Never mind the ten million con men who made a mint at revival meetings back in the day, or the swindlers of the modern megachurch; apparently it's not being ignorant that makes you a menace.



I will allow that there is a possibility of error in all discussions. That doesn't mean we should stop discussing things, or just go off and all be ignorant separately. I think it's good to discuss, and to point out error when we see it--following Biblical precedent. We Christians on Poly might be divided by belief, but we're still a kind of Christian community to the extent that we discuss the faith. If you don't want to do that anymore, that's your right and God bless.

I'm not saying I don't what to discuss beliefs. But you're saying that I don't even knowhat the words mean. As I said, true, I don't know what you mean. Where can the discussion go?

[Elok]

I'm not saying I don't have preconcieved notions which effect how I interpret the Bible, everyone does. We have different experiences that come from God to make us who we are. When I see the Church I see the world. They are mostly herd animals (I mean in their mentality). They're mostly concerned with how they appear to the others. I mean this is why they don't understand the Bible, because they largely don't understand that it's intended to teach one to conform to christ not to this world. They just don't have a clue what that means. And I'm talking about the ministers and all the leaders as well.

Well Stalin and Hitler were the ultimate conformists. Sure they forced others to conform to them but that's because they loved to have power over others. A true nonconformist doesn't need the things of this world like power and money. Only the conformist needs those things because he has no faith in God. He has no idea what joy it is to be a self.

Can you ground any of this in scripture? You've just said that the substantial majority of Christians don't understand the Bible, but you do. You ought to regard that as a danger sign, IMO. Also, WRT Hitler and Stalin, you're redefining the word "conformist" there. Creating a completely insane cult of personality and going on to kill millions could be called many things--all of them bad--but not "conformist."

[Elok]

I haven't read one of his posts. I thought for sure it was loinburger.

Who, NG? Not a chance he's loin. Loin would be far more entertaining. Or at least successfully disruptive. This guy's basically AAHZ, outsourced.

[Elok]

I'm not saying I don't what to discuss beliefs. But you're saying that I don't even knowhat the words mean. As I said, true, I don't know what you mean. Where can the discussion go?

Well, no, I said you're misunderstanding critical terminology, specifically "The Word." But fair enough. We can shake hands and say adieu, if you like.

[Kidlicious]

Can you ground any of this in scripture? You've just said that the substantial majority of Christians don't understand the Bible, but you do. You ought to regard that as a danger sign, IMO. Also, WRT Hitler and Stalin, you're redefining the word "conformist" there. Creating a completely insane cult of personality and going on to kill millions could be called many things--all of them bad--but not "conformist."

Well the Book of Revelations maybe where it talks about the seven churches, but the New Testament mostly portrays the church as ideal. In the Gospels we can talk about the Pharisees but not the christians. Now the ancient Jews were generally screwed up.

As far as the meaning of the word conformist, true, I'm using it differently. That's because it's commonly used by people who fail to understand what it truly means to conform to the ways of this world. To the world being a nonconformist means something different than what I'm talking about. By the word I mean someone who isn's proud, envious, selfish etc.. I'm talking about Christ. He is the perfect nonconformist because He was not distracted by the rewards of this world the way conformists like the Pharisees were. He did God's will.

[SlowwHand]

Good point and well-said.

[Imran Siddiqui]

If you redefine conformity to be someone who is Christ-like, as defined as the ultimate non-conformist to the desires of the world, it would only make sense that those who follow Christian tradition may be non-conformists as well. They who conform to the acquired wisdom of the ages may be gaining closer to Christ than those who cast aside that tradition saying that he can rely only upon himself. Putting yourself under the tradition of those who have struggled with God and written about may be the mark of true humility (though it doesn't mean put your reason aside completely - but trust that the wisdom of the ages actually has something to say and should be looked at, especially if one has not read or scrutinized the concepts addressed by that tradition).

[SlowwHand]

People THINK they can get by on their own. That's true to a point. It sure is nice to have a shoulder to lean on though. Someone that loves you so much.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Indeed. And while people believe that the Spirit can be that sole shoulder to lean on, God has given us a community and a fellowship for a reason. The society in Acts was a communal society where people shared in each others burdens and shared in each others joys. The Spirit does like to work through other people who listen to Him.

[SlowwHand]

I agree totally. I also believe about helping those that help themselves. This isn't a day care center. He does have SOME expectations of self-sufficiency.
"JEEZ! Can't I leave you alone for a minute? I said that I'd be back. Look how you act while I'm not watching. While I AM watching, even. And then you petition me for favors.

[Kidlicious]

I'm not saying don't have fellowship. Just don't define what it means to be a christian. Look to God for that. Otherwise you're hiding in the herd.

Someone who believes in tradition can also be devoted to God so long as they aren't following tradition for thing wrong reason, like impressing people.

[Kidlicious]

Tradition seems to.be the opposite of the accumulation of reason. Men are such creatures that they tend to stray farther and farther from God over time. The community of believers is the same way. I really don't have the golden key to the kingdom of God but I know there's something very wrong with denying that when men gather together in God's name they start slowly screwing it up more and more.