Greatest Sect of Christianity

[Newgod]

Hey anyone knows who she is and what religion is she from
anyways i have read couple of posts in this thread and saw that many actually are trying to show that chirtanity and islam are great religions well the main thing or the true thing is that christanty and islam both tried and are still trying to spread its religion by force and war,the christans did the crusades and the islam did the jihad or whatever the main point is certain that both killed people to spread their religion, in the modern world we see in one hand islamic terrorists clearly saying that forget your religion and become islamic only then we will stop killing you on the other hand the christans are going to the most poorest countries and in name of helping or aiding them converting them to christans the same is going on and has been going on in south india we all know that so dont bring out any more counter things on that its a fact i know it,,
so the religions which kill innocent people in name of god and spread in the blood, tears and dead is that worthy to be follwed, is that what your gods taughts you to kill and convert people, i pitty christans and islam both are pratically ripping themselves apart internally and soon there wont be much left of these 2 religions

[Elok]

WRT Tradition, EVERYONE has a Tradition. Even you, Kid. You believe in predestination and the rapture? You got that from the people who introduced you to the faith, and/or influenced you in your development. You didn't independently derive those ideas, or any others you believe, from reading the Bible all by yourself. You got those interpretations from others, who got them from others, and so on back through time. That constitutes a Tradition. The difference between you and me is that your Tradition goes back about 500 years, tops, to Renaissance Europe, while mine goes back well over three times as long, to the ancient Mediterranean basin. For some reason, you think your Tradition more closely reflects what the early church believed, despite being far removed from them in its roots.

Yes, you have the Bible. Thing is, I have Shakespeare, but I don't pretend I know, by reading Shakespeare, exactly how his contemporaries understood him. That would be silly. His work is full of idioms, references and other gewgaws peculiar to his place and time. Today, even the best Shakespeare scholars have to leaf through old texts to understand what the heck The Bard meant by particular lines. Also, some parts of some plays appear to have been corrupted by bad transcription, by actors writing down lines they poorly remembered, or by later interpolations. These are unfortunate, but don't keep us from appreciating Shakespeare's work. It's just harder.

Now, if we had an analysis of a now-troublesome line written by a man who read the plays in 1653, that would be quite useful, wouldn't it? Such a man would be closer in time to Shakespeare, more steeped in the language and public knowledge of the day. And if people had kept a careful record of what that man, and others, said, and passed them down, why, that'd be almost as good as a First Folio. And that's what Tradition is: the preservation and accumulation of past understanding which might otherwise have been lost.

As to your charge that Tradition opens the door to corruption, I have two answers (aside from the objection that you have a Tradition too). The first can be summed up with the word "televangelists." All sorts of nasty shysters have sprung up to abuse the Bible in the Protestant tradition, because perversions of the Faith, like all other sins, are rooted in human wickedness and not in a particular organization. The second is that Tradition is really more of an obstacle to deviation than otherwise, because it gets people strongly accustomed to certain ideas, so that they strongly resist any change. The corruption Luther objected to was not a Tradition, but a recent deviation from Tradition. Purgatory was a novelty, as was paying cash to get a man out of it.

[Newgod]

hey Elok why do you call everyone kid because you are some 77 years old gradpa with no real teeths left or because you are 85 and your mental age is 20085 or somthing well that might be the case,,

[Jon Miller]

I don't believe in te traditional Christian Jesus- I think there may have been a radical Jewish preacher who was concerned not simply with personal salvation, but also with the social situation of the poor and the traditionally despised elements of Jewish society.

I don't believe in the Virgin birth (which hinges on a questionable translation), the patently absurd wandering star, or the garbled and confused (historically) account of the 'Christmas' story.

I didn't say anything about the virgin birth, or even Christ's death and resurrection (which is really the only important thing, as far as Christianity is concerned).

I don't think it is possible to rationally seriously doubt the existence of a Jewish preacher named Jesus though.

Re: Arianism:
It is also an obvious interpretation of the writings that make up the New Testament. There is no need, reason, or even suggestion that there was a generally accepted contrary set of writings which were eliminated by the Trinitarians. You get Arianism from the same writings that you get Trinitarianism.

My denomination could arguably be considered primarily arian for it's first century.

Re: Canonicity:
What is treated as Canonical hasn't changed. In fact, generally it is just that some have subsets (don't consider James or Revelation, for example, as Canonical). The 'non-canonical' books are not full of heresies and the differences between the denominations do not depend on them.

This argument about what is canon is just flailing by those who wish for an excuse to not believe.

JM

[Lorizael]

hey Elok why do you call everyone kid because you are some 77 years old gradpa with no real teeths left or because you are 85 and your mental age is 20085 or somthing well that might be the case,,

You didn't know, Newgod? Apolyton is actually an incest cult with Elok as the father. We are all literally his children. Join us.

[Newgod]

You didn't know, Newgod? Apolyton is actually an incest cult with Elok as the father. We are all literally his children. Join us.

my forefathers were gods maybe your forefathers were incents well thats the problem with incest species they think they are somthing actually they are nothing just bugs living on their mortal life

[Elok]

I should mention that I totally cribbed that Shakespeare analogy from my Khouria (priest's wife) back home. She's a writer; her website, IIRC, is www.Frederica.com .

[Lorizael]

my forefathers were gods maybe your forefathers were incents well thats the problem with incest species they think they are somthing actually they are nothing just bugs living on their mortal life

Astronomy and entomology - Newgod, you are just a font of information! Do you agree that the cloning practices (and attendant kin selection) of ant species represent a biological root for altruism, or do you think morality necessarily has a supernatural component?

[Elok]

Well, you are a clever boy, but don't go thinking you know more than your Daddy.

[Lorizael]

Yes, sir!

[Newgod]

Well, you are a clever boy, but don't go thinking you know more than your Daddy.

i dont know who you aer saying this to but if you are saying this to me
then is that a threat are you threatening me old man
i can be a good discussion ender but i am not here for it if you want to get serious meet me elsewhere in another fourm and i promise in that name of god that i will talk seroiusly and nicely but not here i am not here for that

[ZEE]

one of us. one of us. one of us.

[Newgod]

and well just a small opinion of mine related to god, he is not someone or somthing that can be described,there is no words in any language that can describe it, there is no maths that can calculate it there is no place from where it could be reached there is nothing that can destroy it there is no feelings that can describe it, we are its creations and we are designed to be this way with flaws and limitations so that we may never achieve perfecteness a level upper than man and closer to god,, thats why he has given us nature out biggest difference out biggest strength and weakness at the same time,, many say with all teh evil around this world not at present why would god let this all happen if he would have existed but the real thing is that he is in control and this is decided by it to happen this way,
everything that is happening happened and will happen, will happen in the exact way as it should be as there is no other way for it to happen
its out end we should realise it like begining an end is certain without death life would not have existed its the rule tha balance that it has created for this mortal realm a kill swith named time and mortality for its creations so that we cannot become more than what we are desinged to be

[Imran Siddiqui]

The difference between you and me is that your Tradition goes back about 500 years, tops, to Renaissance Europe, while mine goes back well over three times as long, to the ancient Mediterranean basin.

Predestination goes back just under 500 years, but the Rapture is more like 150 years tops. I'm not sure why some believe that a belief that comes mainly from evangelical Protestant tradition (it really is a stretch to find it just in the words of Scripture) is held up more than the first 1850 years of Christian faith and explination and thinking through of things (ie, the Early Church didn't believe in a Rapture - they thought Jesus was coming back in their lifetimes to usher in the New Heaven and New Earth).

Oh, and the rest of your post was brilliant - esp the part of televangelists.

[Kidlicious]

Unfortunately for the author of that Gospel, the doctrine of the Trinity didn't develop until centuries after his death, especially with the Scholastics. You're only cofirming your newbie Christianista status each time you post drivel like this.

I wonder if you've ever heard of Theophilus of Antioch, Origen or Tertullian ? None of them were around when the Apostles or Jesus supposedly were. They're all inolved in the early formulation of an idea of a triune godhead- which itself is hardly unique to Christianity. Neither is a virgin birth, by the way.

Would you like a list of non-Christian trinities ?

You don't understand the Gospel according to John. You have no evidence at all that the doctrine of the trinity didn't come directly from Christ.