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**DinoDoc** · October 5, 2011, 00:15

Dude. It was 2007. Let it go.

**Felch** · October 5, 2011, 01:10

Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post

Who cares how American policy shapes how we are perceived? The seeming American obsession to be liked is puzzling. The only real question wrt state policy is if it serves the interests of the State. It's why I don't care for the the "They hate us for our freedom" tripe either.

There are over six billion people in the world who aren't American. We have economic and strategic interests all around the globe, and it's much easier and cheaper to manage our interests if we aren't fighting a significant fraction of those six billion people. That's why foreign perceptions matter. The Union is better off being loved than hated. It may be that decisions may upset one party while pleasing another, but we should accept that as reality, and deal with it. We shouldn't make bull**** claims like, "They hate us because we're free." That's a lie, and lying to yourself is never a good long term strategy.

**Uncle Sparky** · October 5, 2011, 01:29

Of course its the USers fault - who taught the terrorists to fly the planes - Americans. Who let them on the planes - Americans. Case Closed.

**Berzerker** · October 5, 2011, 01:31

Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post

Dude. It was 2007. Let it go.

its 2011, the argument hasn't changed and we're still stuck in 2 wars thanks to people who share your disdain for how other peoples see us

You jumped into my thread to bring up a past debate, so you obviously didn't let it go...

**Ben Kenobi** · October 5, 2011, 02:07

We shouldn't make bull**** claims like, "They hate us because we're free." That's a lie, and lying to yourself is never a good long term strategy.

America should not make decisions to please the other 6 billion people that are not Americans. America needs to make the decisions that are most beneficial to the people that they are responsible to, the citizens of the United States.

This is like asking a business if their primary concern is to society in general or to their stockholders. A business best serves society through the returns that they provide their stockholders, and America best serves the interests of the world by serving their own people first.

America doesn't have the choice as to who they fight. It was not America who provoked the plane flying into the World Trade Centre. Why do you think they targetted this? Yes, a significant fraction of the world's population hates America simply because they are not like them. Because they are free, because they are powerful. America has to stand up for herself as best as she can and unfortunately sometimes, that means going to war with people who attack and kill American civilians.

I am not one of those who believes that America's influence on the world has been negative. I think that if there ever comes a time when America is not filling the void of leadership, that the world will be a much more dangerous place. Many people who are not Americans have become accustomed to relying upon her to always be there. And yes, paradoxically, some of those people who are helped by America also hate her.

Perhaps I am an oddball, but this is how I feel. I feel that Americans are, by and large, good and honourable people. I am proud to say that many of my friends are American, they have brought many blessings into my life and continue to do so.

**Ben Kenobi** · October 5, 2011, 02:10

Of course its the USers fault - who taught the terrorists to fly the planes - Americans. Who let them on the planes - Americans. Case Closed.

Well of course she got raped, she wears her short skirts and hangs around the bar, drinking. She was asking for it.

I'm ashamed to call myself a Canadian after what you wrote here.

**Uncle Sparky** · October 5, 2011, 03:36

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post

Well of course she got raped, she wears her short skirts and hangs around the bar, drinking. She was asking for it.

I don't have a problem with women, you do. And address my arguement BK. Who really trained the terrorists to fly planes - Japan, Uruguay, Iraq, Afghanistan or the USA? (multiple choice, choose one).
Who let them on the planes? Germans, Israelis, Americans or Cubans? (choose one)
While we're playing let's try a couple of others -
How many of the 19 hijackers killed spent time in Canada - 19, 5, 42, 0, 1 ? (choose)
How many of the hijackers were Afghani citizens - 11, 0, 23, 2, 3000 ? (choose one)
What is the appoximate ratio of Americans killed during the World Trade Center attack to Afghanis + Iraqis killed as a result of invasion and occupation?

I'm ashamed to call myself a Canadian after what you wrote here.

Then please don't. Please.

**Uncle Sparky** · October 5, 2011, 04:06

Bonus Question for Conservatives -
What is the approximate ratio of Americans killed during the World Trade Center attack to Americans killed attacking and occupying Afghanistan & Iraq?

To follow BKs analogy I picture Uncle Sam ****ing Lady Liberty with the caption "How dare the Islamists defile her!"
btw - I think conservatives are ********.

**Lorizael** · October 5, 2011, 06:39