Canada: Dangerous case study in the perils of same-sex marriage

[Asher]

Mandatory diversity training isn't brainwashing. Even if it was, that's not what "turns" people gay. Unless you are arguing that mandatory brainwashing alters people's brain structures.

You know what is brainwashing though? Regular attendance to events with masses of likeminded people (groupthink is very effective), where you are regularly reminded of the way to do certain things.

[Asher]

Let's just summarize Ben's argument: Gay Marriage in Canada has made polygamy legal in Canada, even though Polygamy is, in fact, still illegal in Canada and that doesn't look to change any time soon.

Pretty strong argument, IMHO.

[Egbert]

Mandatory diversity training isn't brainwashing. Even if it was, that's not what "turns" people gay. Unless you are arguing that mandatory brainwashing alters people's brain structures.

You know what is brainwashing though? Regular attendance to events with masses of likeminded people (groupthink is very effective), where you are regularly reminded of the way to do certain things.

Umh. No Asher. Here are some definitions of brainwashing:

Inducing a person to modify his or her beliefs, attitudes, or behavior by conditioning through various forms of pressure or torture.

Any mental manipulation intended to change, and ultimately control, the mind of another person, who is held against his/her volition and subjected to psychologic pressure or torture

intensive indoctrination, usually of a political or religious nature, applied to individuals to develop in their minds a specific belief and motivation.

any systematic effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in persons against their will, usually beliefs in conflict with their prior beliefs and knowledge. It initially referred to political indoctrination of prisoners of war and political prisoners.

[Asher]

Umh. No Asher. Here are some definitions of brainwashing:

Inducing a person to modify his or her beliefs, attitudes, or behavior by conditioning through various forms of pressure or torture.

Yep, this doesn't describe religion at all.

Any mental manipulation intended to change, and ultimately control, the mind of another person, who is held against his/her volition and subjected to psychologic pressure or torture

Yup.

intensive indoctrination, usually of a political or religious nature, applied to individuals to develop in their minds a specific belief and motivation.

You're right, this one can't possibly describe religions.

any systematic effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in persons against their will, usually beliefs in conflict with their prior beliefs and knowledge. It initially referred to political indoctrination of prisoners of war and political prisoners.

What exactly is it that you think missionaries do?

Why exactly do you think sunday schools are so common?

Why do you think it's important to worship an omnipotent (or at least omniscient) God by congregating at regular intervals in a massive affirmation ceremony where you are inundated with dramatic and psychologically motivating speeches delivered by a charismatic leader preaching the dogma you are to follow?

[Egbert]

Umh. I didn't mention religion. my comment was restricted to defining "brainwashing".

[Asher]

In what context, if not religion?

[Ben Kenobi]

Mandatory diversity training isn't brainwashing. Even if it was, that's not what "turns" people gay. Unless you are arguing that mandatory brainwashing alters people's brain structures.

Everyone has habits that confine them, but this is something else. Mandatory diversity training happens for one purpose to confine everyone to a particular thought or at least to confine the expression of said thought. That's it's only purpose. Re education is apparently brainwashing if it's not your people doing it.

You know what is brainwashing though? Regular attendance to events with masses of likeminded people (groupthink is very effective), where you are regularly reminded of the way to do certain things.

Voluntary attendence is actually a really poor way. If people are cooperating of their own free will, that's not exactly brainwashing is it?

[Asher]

Everyone has habits that confine them, but this is something else. Mandatory diversity training happens for one purpose to confine everyone to a particular thought or at least to confine the expression of said thought. That's it's only purpose. Re education is apparently brainwashing if it's not your people doing it.

I've never, ever, had "mandatory diversity training" so if this is your excuse for why gay people exist and want to get married, well...

Voluntary attendence is actually a really poor way. If people are cooperating of their own free will, that's not exactly brainwashing is it?

Just like it's not really a hostage situation once you have Stockholm Syndrome, right?

The vast majority of people are brainwashed into religion from a very young age. Their attendance was certainly not voluntary. Mine was not.

[Ben Kenobi]

I've never, ever, had "mandatory diversity training" so if this is your excuse for why gay people exist and want to get married, well...

Where did I say that? You're quite happy to attack people for deviating from what diversity training teaches. That's my problem.

Just like it's not really a hostage situation once you have Stockholm Syndrome, right?

So you are suggesting that I was a hostage to my faith? And I'm the closeminded one here? Hoho.

The vast majority of people are brainwashed into religion from a very young age. Their attendance was certainly not voluntary. Mine was not

Again, I did not have this.

I guess my question is this, do you agree with the goals of mandatory diversity training?

I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with church and your parents. It happens. It happened to my father and my mother too, they left and did not go back.

[MikeH]

Where did I say that? You're quite happy to attack people for deviating from what diversity training teaches. That's my problem.

Diversity training teaches how not to be sexist, racist, homophobic?

So he's happy to attack people for homophobia and that's somehow wrong?

[Egbert]

Diversity training teaches how not to be sexist, racist, homophobic?

So he's happy to attack people for homophobia and that's somehow wrong?

If you really want to be serious about diversity you need to also train people to be tolerant of the intolerant, the homophobes, racists and sexists. Think about it.

Exactly where does tolerance and diversity end? Somewhere, no doubt.

[MikeH]

**** the intolerant.

[Heraclitus]

**** the intolerant.

What if they are born that way?

[MikeH]

Homophobia etc. is learned behaviour.

[Asher]

Where did I say that? You're quite happy to attack people for deviating from what diversity training teaches. That's my problem.



So you are suggesting that I was a hostage to my faith? And I'm the closeminded one here? Hoho.



Again, I did not have this.

I guess my question is this, do you agree with the goals of mandatory diversity training?

The goals of mandatory diversity training is a theme of tolerance. The goal is to not attack or disrespect people because they are black, gay, female, deaf, blind, etc. I do not disagree with this goal.

I'm sure you, as an upstanding person of Christian faith, whole-heartedly embrace this as well. Right?