Indiana school board: "Cursive writing optional"

[Ben Kenobi]

This is the argument you use when your other points have been countered. But... but... but... CHANGE! CHANGE could be BAD! If we let gays marry... uh... er... I mean... if we stop teaching cursive... the institution of marriage.... er... education... will come CRASHING DOWN!

We should actually test before we assume that changes will be beneficial. If tests have been done, then sure, but if not, then I'm skeptical.

At present homeschooled children are 37 points higher then their peers in public schools. Will taking cursive out fix things? Unlikely.

[Asher]

You must be so brilliant.

Not everyone learns the same way.

I not only rarely took notes, I rarely went to lectures. I don't learn that way...never have.

[Asher]

We should actually test before we assume that changes will be beneficial. If tests have benn done, then sure, but if not, then I'm skeptical.

You write in cursive. I don't.
You are stupid. I am not.

Testing complete. Move the **** on.

FWIW, I was requested to never write in cursive in my elementary/Jr High days because my writing was so illegible in it. In High School, most teachers banned cursive writing for similar reasons.

[Lorizael]

We should actually test before we assume that changes will be beneficial. If tests have benn done, then sure, but if not, then I'm skeptical.

Certainly. And I'd be damn surprised if principals in Indiana aren't going to sit down with their teachers and figure out if not teaching cursive is going to be right for their school.

[Lorizael]

We should actually test before we assume that changes will be beneficial. If tests have been done, then sure, but if not, then I'm skeptical.

At present homeschooled children are 37 points higher then their peers in public schools. Will taking cursive out fix things? Unlikely.

*than

I guess teaching cursive doesn't improve your grammar or spelling.

[Lorizael]

We should actually test before we assume that changes will be beneficial. If tests have been done, then sure, but if not, then I'm skeptical.

At present homeschooled children are 37 points higher then their peers in public schools. Will taking cursive out fix things? Unlikely.

Also: Oh no, we're doing worse than some other people! Quick, keep doing the same thing we've been doing!

[Ben Kenobi]

And I'd be damn surprised if principals in Indiana aren't going to sit down with their teachers and figure out if not teaching cursive is going to be right for their school.

Then where's the disagreement?

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh no, we're doing worse than some other people! Quick, keep doing the same thing we've been doing!

Actually, logically.

Something that hasn't changed cannot be the source of the problems. The system worked much better before, ergo the innovations that have been tacked on are the problem, not the things that remain the same.

Attacking the things that work in a broken system is like attacking your radiator to fix an engine problem. Sure you can replace the radiator, but the car still won't run.

[Ben Kenobi]

You write in cursive. I don't.
You are stupid. I am not.

Uh, by standardized testing we are both in the top 5 percentile.

FWIW, I was requested to never write in cursive in my elementary/Jr High days because my writing was so illegible in it. In High School, most teachers banned cursive writing for similar reasons.

So because you sucked at it people shouldn't be taught? Interesting theory.

[Asher]

Uh, by standardized testing we are both in the top 5 percentile.



So because you sucked at it people shouldn't be taught? Interesting theory.

No, people shouldn't be taught it because it is ****ing useless in the real world in 2011.

You'd get more practical use out of teaching kids how to type on smartphones. No joke.

I can probably type on my iPhone faster than you can write in cursive. And it's a lot more legible.

Perhaps if your teachers spent less time working on your cursive and more time teaching you how to solve problems and apply an analytical thought process, you wouldn't make such retarded deductions.

[Fake Boris]

Note taking. Sure, everyone can bring in a laptop to class, but the tickling is annoying and you lose the ability to easily draw. You can in turn solve the issue with a tablet, but then it's the keyboard that sucks.

"The tickling is annoying" => we should extend substantial resources to teaching everyone a useless skill?

Oh noes, it's harder to draw! Oh wait, if I want to draw then I don't need cursive do I? BECAUSE IT'S A ****ING DRAWING.

You still haven't justified why we need to be able to take notes so fast that print can't possibly work.

This is absurd.

Exams. You could technically require everyone to bring a laptop to the exam and have them login to a secure system... But huh, think about all the nightmares that would generate. And either you find a way to disable multi-tasking, or you have the students pass the exam in a computer room set up just for that. Extra costs for space and hundreds of computers bought.

Or, you know, they could take exams in print.

1. There is nothing substantial in teaching cursives, takes what, 3 months?
2. The faster you write, the more you listen
3. Yes, if the tickling turns out to be a major annoyance, we should find a way around it
4. a) Switching between your laptop and a sheet you draw on is an annoyance
b) sometimes you need both TEXT AND GRAPHICS
c) teenagers, unless they are quite smart, DO NOT MANAGE NOTES PROPERLY UNTIL THEY ARE OLDER, i.e. they'll just lose the ****ing sheet of paper
5. You and Asher have never had a lecture that requires significant word by word note taking, because you studied in scientific disciplines
6. Connected device + teenager = YOUTUBE + IM + SMS + FARMVILLE

[Fake Boris]

I can probably type on my iPhone faster than you can write in cursive. And it's a lot more legible.

This is a good point.

But you don't want TEENAGERS WITH TABLETS, and the next-best option is cursive.

ps: how fast do you type on your iPhone (curious) ?

[Asher]

There is nothing substantial in teaching cursives, takes what, 3 months?

3 months isn't substantial???

2. The faster you write, the more you listen

Factually untrue. I'm not going to link it, but there's been many studies on note taking. Every single time, the people who write tons of stuff done actually remember less than people who are selective. The people who selectively write things down apply real-time analytical thought to what they are interpreting -- analyzing, interpreting, storing, and determining importance. Most people who quickly write tons of notes are merely mechanically transcribing what they are hearing, they are not actually processing it. They do not have time to.

4. a) Switching between your laptop and a sheet you draw on is an annoyance
b) sometimes you need both TEXT AND GRAPHICS

One of these days, someone is going to invent a computerized input device that accepts something other than keyboard strokes. Perhaps a "tablet" or something.

5. You and Asher have never had a lecture that requires significant word by word note taking, because you studied in scientific disciplines

What the ****? 40% of my university courses were NOT science courses. I've taken history courses, etc. I don't take ample amount of lecture notes. It's ****ing useless. You write down KEY CONCEPTS or in the case of history, key dates/events/people. YOU DO NOT TRANSCRIBE.

6. Connected device + teenager = YOUTUBE + IM + SMS + FARMVILLE

After someone invents the tablet computer, maybe they will invent a VIRTUAL WALL of some kind to prevent kids from accessing certain concept. Perhaps something like a "firewall".

FWIW, my company sells digital classroom products. And they sell ****loads of them. You know why? They work.
We sell tablet computers with interactive testing/quizing software on them. We sell wireless routers that block out non-educational content and has security controls that are very strict -- the teachers can customize a ridiculous amount of things. You are clearly not in touch with what the modern classrooms are doing. It's not too surprising -- the Quebec market is, in many ways, the most backwards. IIRC they're trending lower on their test scores than other provinces.

In any case, this thread has made it painfully clear that instead of teaching kids how to write in cursive, the time should be spent teaching you and Ben how to properly take notes.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, people shouldn't be taught it because it is ****ing useless in the real world in 2011.

I would argue that it is useful to be able to compose a letter in cursive, even if it is used infrequently. In my work, deciphering cursive does come into play (ie, working with primary source documents).

You'd get more practical use out of teaching kids how to type on smartphones. No joke.

Many things which are practical are not the responsibility of school, and many things which are impractical are part of what schools should teach. I'm not a utilitarian.

I can probably type on my iPhone faster than you can write in cursive. And it's a lot more legible.

My cursive took a long time to get to legibility. It was not something that I was good at, but it has come in handy.

Perhaps if your teachers spent less time working on your cursive and more time teaching you how to solve problems and apply an analytical thought process, you wouldn't make such retarded deductions.

I learned cursive from the neighbour lady who looked after me afternoons. She taught me when I was 6.

[Asher]

This is a good point.

But you don't want TEENAGERS WITH TABLETS, and the next-best option is cursive.

ps: how fast do you type on your iPhone (curious) ?

As I've said, you do want teenagers with tablets. Do you know how many schools are tripping over themselves to have locked down iPads for students?

It's an enormous market and initial studies have shown tremendous improvements in knowledge retention in many, many people. Again, because very few people, statistically, actually learn well by simply transcribing notes. Interactively participating in the lesson is far, far more effective.